1995 J200 stalls above idle

[23coastal]

Have a 1995 200hp Johnson Oceanrunner. Motor sometimes quits while idling (700rpm). Motor often quits when placed in gear and throttle advanced past idle around 1500 rpm. The motor was rebuilt in 2005, and last year replaced the power pack rebuilt carbs with oem kits. When the motor stalls it just stops, no sputter or hesitation (ignition?). And of course this problem is intermittent ? no fun. I do have the shop manual.. Will meter the timing sensor coil today while advancing throttle. Still on last years treated fuel. Any ideas will be appreciated. Many thanks..

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

Timing light to see if the ignition is cutting out,
a spark gap test at 7/16th inch gap to see if theres a dead coil.
Should be a bright blue spark.

 

[23coastal]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

The problem is intermittent. Once the motor revs past 2000rpm it runs like a champ. Will check with spark gap tester set to 7/16. Thanks..

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

Make sure all the butterfly's are fully closed at idle.
And all at 90 degs level when throttle is set at full.

 

[23coastal]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

-Primer bulb was mushy, so that was replaced today..
-Could not start the motor. There was no spark when viewed with the tester. Pushed the kill switch in and out a few times and the motor started. Local dealer did not have a kill switch, but found one nearby will replace tomorrow..
-All ignition coils were in spec when checked with an ohm meter, ~275 ohms.
-Timer base resistance from port D and starboard D pins was in spec, ~230 ohms.
-Timer base pins D to A,B,C (both port and starboard) read high at about 220k ohms, but were consistent to each other. Think the timer base is toast?
-Have a volt meter, but need a DVA peak voltage adapter. Looks like an analog meter at better for these checks, huh?
-Did I test the sparks right? I removed all of the wires from the six plugs, connected the clip (see pic) to the a plug terminal and other side to the ignition coil, then cranked the motor. It was bright day, but I saw at thin line of spark. Was not very bright in the daylight sun, but was there. If this is the right way to test will test all plugs tomorrow.
-The butterflies are closed at idle and are at 90degs at full throttle.
-Tried after the above.. Motor ran fine out of the marina, but then had problems above idle, but would run well past 2k rpm. And then it kept stalling at idle. Finally got it started and limped home.
-Will test spark on all plugs and replace kill switch tomorrow. Also picked up remote cables because the current ones are old and sloppy.
-Linkage does not appear to be binding anywhere.. Thanks..

 

[23coastal]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

I'm dialing in the symptoms.. When the motor is acting up it will start, sputter, then stall, as opposed to original description ? getting worse. Can sometimes start the motor and will run until placed in gear and then revs reach around 1500 will drop out and stall. Once 2000 rpm is reached all is well, always. Also seems like theres a fine line between 1000 and 2000 rpm. Linkage, cam pickup point, timer base? Throttle roller is close but not touching the cam at idle. Power pack was replaced last year, could it be the problem already? Thanks..

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

sounds like low speed jets in a carb clogged up..clean your carbs. the spark gap tester clamp should be grounded to the block and the other end goes where the spark plug should go. remove all spark plugs, a new set of correct champion plugs is also recommended if they are over 1 year old.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

move that roller so it touches the cam.

 

[23coastal]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

Thanks for the advice. Made some more checks...
-Plugs are new (two trips/a weeks ago) Champion QL77JC4 as per spec.
-Just replaced the kill switch at the remote. Motor started after messing with kill switch, but could be coincidence.
-Following tests were completed on land with ear muffs and hose. Used an analog meter with DVA.
--Primary ignition coils were 100-150vdc while cranking (with DVA).
--Primary ignition coils were all 200vdc at idle in neutral (with DVA).
-Following sparks checks were made with one ignition wire connected to the gap tester and the other five ignition wires disconnected from the plugs, then cranked the motor.
--Checked sparks with tester set to 7 / 16 didn't see anything.
--Checked sparks with tester set to 1 / 4 saw blue spark cross the gap.
-I rebuilt the carbs early last year using dealer oem parts and the actual factory manual. Ran well all last season and first two time this season. Think total rebuilds are necessary or can get away with spraying solvent into the throats (cringe).
-The roller is about 1mm from the throttle cam at idle. Since it sometimes stalls at idle I'd rather not touch that at this point.
-The motor sometimes starts in the water on the first few revolutions and keeps running. Other times can't get it started in the water after she's been running and stopped. Sometimes runs after being stopped, but can't get past idle in gear. Intermittent problems are the worst! Thanks!

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

you need to do a DVA test on your regulator, and stator..find your motor here and go thorough test...sounds a lot like regulator or stator to me..no spark at 7/16 gap is weak spark, also could be coils...is this a 60 degree looper or a crossflow motor??? if its a 60 it will have the double coils stacked on top of each other, remove them and look for discoloration (where its grounding out) on the plate behind them..if you find this replace all coils.

 

[23coastal]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

Thanks SparkieBoat.. Motor is a '95 Johnson OceanRunner model 200TXEOC. This motor has six individual ignition coils. Hope these test do not require special meter adapters beyond a DVA. Will check the factory manual and continue with checks. Many thanks..

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

Thanks for the advice. Made some more checks...
-Plugs are new (two trips/a weeks ago) Champion QL77JC4 as per spec.
-Just replaced the kill switch at the remote. Motor started after messing with kill switch, but could be coincidence.
-Following tests were completed on land with ear muffs and hose. Used an analog meter with DVA.
--Primary ignition coils were 100-150vdc while cranking (with DVA).
--Primary ignition coils were all 200vdc at idle in neutral (with DVA).
-Following sparks checks were made with one ignition wire connected to the gap tester and the other five ignition wires disconnected from the plugs, then cranked the motor.
--Checked sparks with tester set to 7 / 16 didn't see anything.
--Checked sparks with tester set to 1 / 4 saw blue spark cross the gap.
-I rebuilt the carbs early last year using dealer oem parts and the actual factory manual. Ran well all last season and first two time this season. Think total rebuilds are necessary or can get away with spraying solvent into the throats (cringe).
-The roller is about 1mm from the throttle cam at idle. Since it sometimes stalls at idle I'd rather not touch that at this point.
-The motor sometimes starts in the water on the first few revolutions and keeps running. Other times can't get it started in the water after she's been running and stopped. Sometimes runs after being stopped, but can't get past idle in gear. Intermittent problems are the worst! Thanks!

Remove all plugs for the spark test, do it by the book.

Draw some fuel and check for water again.

Put your meter across the battery terminals when running to see if the rect/regulator is working. A bad regulator can interfere with ignition.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

DVA adapter and multi meter will be all you will need besides a spark gap tester..check spark as recommended..need strong fire at 7/16 gap...I strongly suspect your rectifier/regulator..look up your part number and find the part on CDI electronics site then download the install sheet for specific test on the parts. You have a cross flow motor...they have a high rate of regulator failure...they aint cheap either.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

o yea..dont forget to test the stator also...they seem to hold up better but can be ruined by a bad regulator. they aint cheap either...lol

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

DVA adapter and multi meter will be all you will need besides a spark gap tester..check spark as recommended..need strong fire at 7/16 gap...I strongly suspect your rectifier/regulator..look up your part number and find the part on CDI electronics site then download the install sheet for specific test on the parts. You have a cross flow motor...they have a high rate of regulator failure...they aint cheap either.

You have a big bore looper with QuikStart ignition which is probably malfunctioning.

 

[23coastal]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

When the not starting and stalling problem does not occur the motor will start at about 1100 rpm, until warmed then idle at ~850 rpm in neutral, 750 rpm in fwd. At each startup after warmed motor will run at 1100 rpm for five secs then will return to normal idle. Motor does seem to vibrate excessively when QuickStart is on. If I move the fast idle to just where it would run at 1100 rpm the motor smooths out, if back down while QuickStart is engaged the motor vibrate again. Almost like the motor is heading to idle at 700 rpm, but kicks up to 1100. Drops to about 900-1000 rpm before picking up to 1100 rpm. This drop in rpm happens about four times a second while QuickStart is engaged. The power pack was replaced last year. Its a CDI 'Fast Strike' with SLOW and QuickStart features.

Checking the power output of the regulator requires a test wheel and tank which I do not have. The Most I can do is take some resistance measurements stopped and voltage readings at idle. There's no way to check those timer magnets under the flywheel without pulling it huh? Pulling the flywheel sound real hairy, requiring special OMC tools, etc.

There is no visible spark when the spark gap tester is set to 7/16 th. There's a bright blue spark when moved to 1 /4 though. Looks like the motor is cranking at around 200 rpm. There are two deep cycle batteries connected while cranking. They have been used for two seasons and were charged before installed six weeks ago.. Does the ignition system draw from the batteries during the initial power up curve from 700 to 1500 rpm? Does the ignition system use the regulator for anything or is that for charging the batteries? Thanks for contributing to this thread.

 

[23coastal]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

The charge volt meter at the instrument panel reads 14.5 volts while the motor is running.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

The starter is what uses the battery power although a small amount of voltage passes through to initialize the ignition system. 300 RPM is desired so that the ignition system wll fire correctly - 250 RPM minimum.

With the exception of the five seconds at first turning on the ignition, QuikStart advances the timing and should not cut in and out once it is disengaged unless you cut the power off and allow the engine to cool.

Advancing the throttle while in QuikStart should disengage QuikStart once 1100 RPM is reached.

You might want to check your starter system using voltage drop tests in case you have resistance somewhere in the circuit. Just takes a few minutes with a standard DC voltmeter.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

Ezeke is da man !

Methinks he hit it right again. Might be time to come out of retirement.

Cranking too slow to jump 7/16th gap,
probably isn't supplying full 12v via the yellow/red wire during cranking to energize the powerpack.

 

[23coastal]

Re: 1995 J200 stalls above idle

Thanks for the feedback.. Sometimes the motor turns over and starts at the first attempt. After a minute or two of idling may stall, or may idle fine in neutral and in gear, then stall once throttle is advanced, and sometimes goes from idle to 2000 rpm with no in between when throttle is advanced, and sometimes there's no problem at all. I can get a new battery and give it a shot.