Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

[older]

I have a 15 hp two stroke evinrude and I believe the year is about 1981 according to the model number.

Anyway, it stopped pumping water and the motor overheated and stalled. I managed to restart and with a little water flowing, got back to the ramp.

I took it apart and noticed that the lower unit oil was like milk shake and not much of it left so assumed the prop shaft seals were leaking as it always dripped oil out of the prop. Changed the seals and at the same time changed the pump housing and impeller.

The manual says to put the shift lever in forward to expose the screw connection on the shift linkage when separating the lower unit and that went with no problems.

After reassembling everything, now the engine is stuck in reverse at times and when it isn't, it doesn't want to start which I assume is another problem.

Anyway, during dismantling, I nicked the end of the prop housing that is next to the reverse gear. Would that create a problem of not being able to shift into and out of reverse at times?

Thanks in advance from an old rookie.

 

[mikesea]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

More than likely the problem lies with the connector you loosened to remove the lowerunit.it MUST be aligined so the screw smoothly fits thru the hole and also locks the shaft by sliding thru the notch on the shafts.Any other way will not work.the common mistake is just putting the shaft into the connector and clamping down on the screw,that is wrong and will cause shift trouble along with screwing the connector and screw up.Try it again,make sure the notch allows the screw to pass thru,if you sure that you have done that right,then pull the lower off and try shifting it with gearcase removed,up should be forward turning thr driveshaft ONLY clockwise,all down is rev.somewhere middle is neutral.If it dont work that way ,you probably have trouble in the case

 

[Doug N.]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

I just ran into something similar when I put my 10 horse evenrude back together. I had to pry the connector apart to get the shift shaft back together. I took a round file and carefully polished the groove so I could see when I had the shaft in the coupler. That worked pretty well.

Somehow the shift adjustment got out of whack and I couldn't get to reverse. I adjusted the shift lever up at the power head and that fixed it. A little bit of change goes a long way on that adjustment.

Hope that helps.

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Thanks Mikesea and Doug N.

I have a feeling it is the shift linkage as well. I made sure the screw rides in the groove of the shift lever and used a screwdriver to turn it in which it went in easily enough. Reading the manual, there is a measurement taken to adjust the linkage but being that I didn't touch the linkage during this repairs I thought it should be okay.

The shift box at the console felt very sloppy so disconnected the cable at the motor and shifted at the lever on the side of the motor. It does feel very sloppy at times there too and doesn't go into reverse or sometimes doesn't come out of reverse without a lot of effort, so I'll look into that issue the next time I play with the motor.

The manual says to turn the linkage in or out as needed in the bottom unit, so how were you able to adjust it in the top unit?

As for the no start, I think I was trying to start it while it was engaged in reverse and wow does my arm hurt!


Thanks again.

 

[Doug N.]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

What I would do is to start at the bottom and work my way up since you had the lower unit off. First, make sure that the clutch dog assembly is correct. Next, make sure that the shift linkage between the lower unit and upper is correct. Third, disconnect the shift cable and make sure the shifter at the power head works OK. There are some set screws that let you move things around a bit. that was the touchy part in my previous post. If you can get it to shift properly without the cables, then you can make adjustments at the shift box. There is probably a thumb screw to adjust going into the box.

After that, you are on your own. I haven't had a box apart in years, and the last one was a Merc. I should post my experience there on stupid human tricks.
The fish are hungry and waiting, go git em.
D

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

What I would do is to start at the bottom and work my way up since you had the lower unit off. First, make sure that the clutch dog assembly is correct. Next, make sure that the shift linkage between the lower unit and upper is correct. Third, disconnect the shift cable and make sure the shifter at the power head works OK. There are some set screws that let you move things around a bit. that was the touchy part in my previous post. If you can get it to shift properly without the cables, then you can make adjustments at the shift box. There is probably a thumb screw to adjust going into the box.

After that, you are on your own. I haven't had a box apart in years, and the last one was a Merc. I should post my experience there on stupid human tricks.
The fish are hungry and waiting, go git em.
D

I'll also look at the clutch dog but not sure of what I'll be looking at. I'll have to rely on pictures in the manual. I did have the bottom unit at different angles while working on it so maybe the clutch dog became dislodged or misaligned somehow.

As for fishing, I'm going surf fishing tomorrow before the publicly funded day care kids hit the beach!

 

[Doug N.]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

I didn't look at the manual for yours, but on mine there is a screw that the shift linkage at the bottom end pivots on. That allows for proper movement of the clutch dog back and forth. If the screw isn't properly placed, the linkage won't move the clutch dog back and forth right. You can examine the pictures in your manual and reconstruct how you put the thing back together to see how much you want to go back into it. If you think the lower unit linkage way at the bottom is correct, move on up. It sounds like your problem is at the connector, the top end shifter or the control box as long as you are confident in putting the LU back together right. The tough thing about the forum is not seeing what the thing looks like and not being there.
Best of luck.
D

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

I didn't look at the manual for yours, but on mine there is a screw that the shift linkage at the bottom end pivots on. That allows for proper movement of the clutch dog back and forth. If the screw isn't properly placed, the linkage won't move the clutch dog back and forth right. You can examine the pictures in your manual and reconstruct how you put the thing back together to see how much you want to go back into it. If you think the lower unit linkage way at the bottom is correct, move on up. It sounds like your problem is at the connector, the top end shifter or the control box as long as you are confident in putting the LU back together right. The tough thing about the forum is not seeing what the thing looks like and not being there.
Best of luck.
D

I was getting really flustered so decided to step back and will work on it on a later date.

I think I'll remove the prop housing and manually shift it from the top of the motor first to see how things move then go from there. I didn't remove the prop shaft, just the reverse gear to clean things out. Thanks for all the help.

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Just in case some one else has a similar problem, I'll post my embarrassing sequence of events today.

I took off the prop shaft to look at the clutch dog and even though I'm not sure of what I'm supposed to see, everything looked secure and nothing is loose or dangling, so tried shifting into reverse after taking out the reverse gear and it falls into reverse easily enough but now sticks going into forward until I turn the flywheel clockwise. The stupid thing is I tried this yesterday, but with the spark plugs still installed. I guess I have good compression!

Here's the funny part. My GF comes out and asks to see what I'm doing and she says that don't I usually shift it into gear when the engine is running? I felt stupid as I knew she was right. Okay, now I know everything shifts alright so proceeded to work on the no start problem.

Pulled the plugs and they looked a little wet, probably from all that cranking yesterday while it was in gear. Cleaned the plugs off and the engine started on the third pull. You guessed it, still no water spitting out.

The weekend is near.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Tell your GF for me that "she rocks!!!!"

Be aware that water not coming from the telltale if that's what you are indicating doesn't mean it isn't isn't pumping, you may have dirt in the fitting or the tube or the nipple on the lower cowl. The other item that is of question is the t-stat, they have to be working properly to get water flow to cool the powerhead, even though the telltale is showing a stream doesn't mean that it is cooling, pull it and check it. The other issue could be a blockage, if it's freshwater it's unlikely.

Other issues can arise, water tube not seated in the pump housing properly or the water grommet could be collapsed at the top of the water tube.

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Tell your GF for me that "she rocks!!!!"

Be aware that water not coming from the telltale if that's what you are indicating doesn't mean it isn't isn't pumping, you may have dirt in the fitting or the tube or the nipple on the lower cowl. The other item that is of question is the t-stat, they have to be working properly to get water flow to cool the powerhead, even though the telltale is showing a stream doesn't mean that it is cooling, pull it and check it.

My GF is a retired computer programmer so deductive reasoning is second nature to her.

When I started the engine today, it was the same dribble of a drop or two coming out of the pea hole that started this whole mess. It's my fault for being lazy, but I never really looked closely under the water pump to check the inlet side. Forgot to add that I hooked up the garden hose to the pipe that slides into the water pump on the upper housing and water flows nicely out of the pea hole.

Looks like on this older motor, to get to the thermostat, I'd have to remove the power head just to get to the lower bolt. Maybe a custom hole in the case with a custom plug? Hmmmm.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Nope, a wrench is all you need to pull the stat cover off, you don't even have to remove the cowl latch, i've done a few and there is room albeit it tight but it can be done.

ps- she must be special, most programmers can't tie their own shoes LOL

I kid I kid

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Dropped the lower unit again today and looked at the water pump installation. I also checked the screen and the cavity below the water pump and it looks good there too. Everything looks good but one thing I noticed is that the new steel pump liner in the housing has a smaller opening where the water feeds into the impeller than the old liner and housing. The housings do not interchange as there is slight height difference of the liners so...

...I cleaned out the old housing and liner and installed on the lower unit and shazam, still no stream of water out of that pea hole using the muffs, just the same dribble. I put the motor in a trash can full of water and ran it, same thing.

The manual says to turn the drive shaft CLOCKWISE while installing the water pump housing so the impeller blades can seat in correctly. One question, which way are they looking at the driveshaft, from the top down or the bottom up?

Wow, car engines might be bigger and physically hard to work on, but this little outboard is trying my patience. I may have to adapt a VW bug engine to this boat!

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

How about some photos ???? to let us all know what is going on there ??

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Forgot to add that I again held the garden hose on to the copper tube the feeds the upper part of the engine and water does stream out of the pea hole so I am assuming the path is clear for the water to travel through the head. Is it still possible for the thermostat to be stuck closed? I know that on car engines, if the thermostat is stuck closed, water will still flow through the bypass but the engine will overheat. I guess the same can be expected with an outboard.

The pump kit comes with three different grommets for the pump housing to mate to this tube. One is the low type that the original set up had and the one I used. Seem this is the only one that would fit as one of the others is too long and the third is just simply to big in diameter for that tube.

Keep watching, you might see a new boat anchor for sale here.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Come on, You will get this sorted !!!!

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

How about some photos ???? to let us all know what is going on there ??

I'm afraid that I may throw my camera in disgust.

This system looks so simple mechanically so I am totally confused as to why water is not going through that pea hole like before.

Next attempt will be thermostat I think. Maybe the garden hose is supplying more pressure than the pump can offer to force water to the pea hole.

I'm glad I'm retired.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

Run it without the stat to test only. That way you will know if it is that or not.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

The telltale is before the stat, if you say a garden hose shoots water out the telltale yet when assembled you get nothing it`s from the pump to the telltale, stat isn`t part of this troubleshooting exercise. Pull the lowerunit and submerse it in a trashcan, hook up a powerdrill and run it. If the pump is working correctly you should see water spray from the pump housing. Could be that the tube just isn`t going in upon reassembly, trust me , it happens.

 

[older]

Re: Hi, new guy with a problem, what else?

The telltale is before the stat, if you say a garden hose shoots water out the telltale yet when assembled you get nothing it`s from the pump to the telltale, stat isn`t part of this troubleshooting exercise. Pull the lowerunit and submerse it in a trashcan, hook up a powerdrill and run it. If the pump is working correctly you should see water spray from the pump housing. Could be that the tube just isn`t going in upon reassembly, trust me , it happens.

Wow, good idea...but back to one of my questions.

Which way is the clockwise rotation, looking from the top down or the bottom up? I guess I can pull the start rope and watch the flywheel? Duh!

But then, on second thought, it was pumping great until this problem started.