E140txcdc..

[Rscardina]

Hey guys,

Scratching my head here... I am having an issue with my outboard that to me sounds like a feul issue but needed to ask the experts before I dig deep into this..

I changes spark plugs yesterday, all 4, have fresh gas, new feul seperator, primer is good..I have the choked key ignition and vro on this..

I went out this morning and started the engine becasue i am planning on heading out tomorrw for some striper fishing.. I pushed in the key to choke and cranked..after two attempts maybe three she fired up and ran..ihave a good tell tale and she sounds like she hitting on all cyclinders.

after i back off the advance on throttle to put to her in idle she runs for a bit, still sounding good..and then cuts out almost as if she had no feul.

I then try to start again after checking primer bulb, throttle position etc..she cranks but doesnt catch on first attempt.. after another two or three tries she goes.. this time i advanced the throttle more to keep her reving at about 1200-1300 rpms.. after a a few minutes of sounding strong she cuts out again!!

I also notice that the vro oil is coming out somewhere under the carb cover..I have not pulled the cover plate off yet..I assume this is not normal?? or isi it? Never had a VRo before..

In one of the picture there is red lever on the choke solenoid..is that in the correct position?


My plan is to verify good spark, and feul..and then move to compression or in some order.. having never rebult this type of carb before i'm a bit nervous..any suggestion on that as well?

Can anyone think of any thing or experienced something similar that I should be checking first?

 

[basspirate]

Re: E140txcdc..

that defiantly sounds like a fuel problem. from your pics it looks like the solenoid is in the right position (red handle inline with the solenoid). you seeing 2 cycle oil could be normal or it could not be. if the engine was tilted up or not in the full down position, oil mix may leak backwards out of the carb throats. that is normal. wipe everything down, make sure the engine is in the full down position then look for leaks. if you see any then you have a problem. your fuel lines may be old and cracked. your engine is an older engine where the fuel lines were not designed for ethanol. yours may be cracked or deteriorating causing your low speed jets to be clogged.
take a line off the carb side and feed it into a clear plastic bottle. crank the engine a few times and have someone watch the bottle. first the fuel should squirt into the bottle. that will tell you if the fuel pump is good. next look for dirt in the fuel especially small pieces of rubber. if its there you may have to replace your hoses and do a carb rebuild. check everything first cause those fuel lines can be expensive.

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

Good points...ill check that out. I do know for sure the engine was rebuilt in 2003...so while the numbers are old the powerhead is not that old..

Any idea how often carbs should be done if at all?...

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

another quick question... can i prove feul delivery problems by squirting something into the carbs while the unit is starting to sounds rough??

I was going to take the carb or intake cover off to see the intakes and my thinking was once she started rough,,just before she dies i was going to spray either carb cleaner or starting fluid... if she keeps going then i am sure its feul right??

 

[basspirate]

Re: E140txcdc..

yes, but stay away from carb cleaner and starter fluid. they both have no lube in them and they thin out what lube in in the engine already. premix in a spray bottle works good. also if you take the air cleaner off you may be able to see the gas atomizing in the carbs.

 

[basspirate]

Re: E140txcdc..

p.s. the carbs are easily rebuilt. get a manual or there may be some info in the stickys on rebuilding.

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

omg..i'm such a bonehead... I never even thought of that!! Thanks!

Ill premix to test....

you mentioned air cleaner.. I'm not sure where that is...is it under the air intake cover?..which by the way has like 10 bolts or so to remove?


The one thing i just noticed.. as i was at the engine, with my ear to the vro/feul pump i could hear a hissing or buzzing like noise..i thought i had the power on or something..almost sounded as it gas or air was leaking back toward the tank..

 

[ezeke]

Re: E140txcdc..

There is no "air cleaner". If oil leaks out of the air silencer, it's possible that you have a bad gasket on the cover, which you should fix or the engine will run lean.

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

ezeke..when you say gasket what do yu mean?

I havent taken the cover off to expose the carbs yet..is there a gasket on the cover or or once i get in past the cover?

Thanks

 

[ezeke]

Re: E140txcdc..

Click the thumbnail please. Your air silencer is not supposed to leak - it has a gasket, two seals and a drain. Maybe the drain hose is loose.

 

[basspirate]

Re: E140txcdc..

he's right it's just an air silencer cover. sorry thinking in terms of autos.

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

ezeke.. I took the cover off and sure enough the gasket was torn so the lower right corner was compltely open. I also noticed that there is no seal per say they just used gasket paste to fill in the space where the seal should be.

I'm off to pick up a new one..

Question: The carbs look brand spankin new. the orifices look clear (as far as i can see)..WHen I check the throttle all looks in line with each butterfly..in the neutral position they all looked closed with a slight gap.. does this sound correct?

Secondly, since I am making sure I have correct feul delivery, i assume there is no harm in crankng it over with the plate removed to see feul entering the throats??

Thanks

 

[ezeke]

Re: E140txcdc..

When the throttle is in neutral and the warmup lever down, the throttle plates should be closed.

When the control arm is fully forward the throttle plates should all be perfectly horizontal, wide open or WOT.

There are instructions in section one of your factory service manual under Synchronization and Linkage Adjustment.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...l1313&_nkw=320526580963&_sacat=&_fvi=1&_rdc=1

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

I just ran out to check.. in neutral and warm up lever down they are 100% closed...at full throttle they are almost exactly turned 90 degrees..they look like they are about 85 degrees or what i would condsider wide open..

I'll look at the manual.

As far as starting with the cover off and carbs exposed, i should be ok?

The gasket being torn could cause what to happen exactly? I know you said it would run lean but does that mean the engine could act as my previous post stated?

I'm starting at the carbs to hopefully work my way back as far as delivery of feul.. is this the best approach in your opinion?..

Keep in mind, i have fresh gas, primer pumps solid but does get soft after it sits for a while..should that alsways stay solid once pumped (without engine running of course)?

Thanks for the help..!!

 

[ezeke]

Re: E140txcdc..

I just ran out to check.. in neutral and warm up lever down they are 100% closed...at full throttle they are almost exactly turned 90 degrees..they look like they are about 85 degrees or what i would condsider wide open..

I'll look at the manual.

As far as starting with the cover off and carbs exposed, i should be ok?

The gasket being torn could cause what to happen exactly? I know you said it would run lean but does that mean the engine could act as my previous post stated?

I'm starting at the carbs to hopefully work my way back as far as delivery of feul.. is this the best approach in your opinion?..

Keep in mind, i have fresh gas, primer pumps solid but does get soft after it sits for a while..should that alsways stay solid once pumped (without engine running of course)?

Thanks for the help..!!

It OK for working purposes to run at idle with the cover off, but you can't fine tune it that way because there is too much air.

The primer bulb should not stay hard after the engine is running, but it should not collapse either. If it collapses, you have a fuel obstruction.

As long as you have the cover off the carburetors, take the plugs out of the float bowls one by one and give the primer bulb a couple of good squeezes each to flush the float bowls. Protect your eyes.

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

You are the best! Thanks. The bulb doesnt collapse, it stays slight firm, soft but never caves...

It does get spongy when it sits for a while after its been pumped...so i thought maybe i was leaking back toward the tank.


My thought about starting the engine with the cover off was just to see if i could get a look at the feul entering the carbs throats and nothing more..I just want to be sure there is feul is getting there.. i would at least (maybe) eliminate carbs in the equation..and work backwards

If you have time to answer another question i would appreciate it... regarding the hi/lo jets.. they look clear with no obstructions..however, when the cover plate is installed the carbs press against a foam backing inside the cover... so how do the jets work exactly?? It appears to the naked eye that they are encased to only cross between each other...

 

[ezeke]

Re: E140txcdc..

The high speed jets are in the bottom of the float bowls, behind and aligned with the drain plug. The idle and intermediate jets are in the body.

These orifices are precisely metered to allow fuel to mix with air as it is pulled through the carburetor by the vacuum created by the piston. The orifice sizes are measured in fractional decimal equivalents of an inch where, for example, a #37 orifice is 0.037. The size of the openings may be checked using the bases of numbered drill bits as gauges; for example a number 63 drill bit base will just fit through a #37 orifice.

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

Thanks for explaining the jets..i think i get it now.


So, Just called 4 marine stores and no one has the gasket I need...the one i have isnt completely trashed just the one corner has a tear and was bent into the box leaving that corner open. i guess for the time being i will try to reuse what i have with a bit of sealent..to get a good seal on it.

i'm running outside to further troubles shoot the feul..I will be back with more questions so stay tuned!!

Thanks for all the input!

 

[ezeke]

Re: E140txcdc..

Try Monahan's in Weymouth. They keep pretty good inventory and ship quickly. sales@monahansmarine.com

 

[Rscardina]

Re: E140txcdc..

I did..and they too did not have it... so I really only have one option for the time being...sealent i guess..

On another note going back to my OP. I did a compression check while i was investigating the issue i am having..

Looking at the back of the engine..Top left 125, Bot Left 130, Top Right 125. bottom right 125... so 125, 130, 125, 125... I think we are good with compression.

I cleared the bowls using the method you described..each bowl had gas/oil mix..when primed they each shot some feul so it appears the bowls are definately getting gas to them..it didnt shoot out crazy like or anything but definitely flowed nicely on all 4 carbs..

The last thing i want to do is check spark..but i'm solo now so i dont have anyone to turn the key for me...so ill do that once my neighbor returns...

To reiterate in my OP..the engine fires up and after about a minute she cuts out.. no sputter..just cuts out as if you turned the key to off...when you try to re-start..she doesnt crank over..almost as if i have no feul..but once i choke and prime and crank she then catches and runs for another minute and viola..she cuts out again as before..no sputter..just off.

I'm staring to wonder if this is not feul related and electrical in nature..any thoughts, ideas or suggestions as to where to go after this?