Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

[TN-25]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

... Oh, and I found a wonderful place to buy parts, its a place called Vans in Grand Rapids, MI: www.vanssports.com . They had rebuild kits and other miscellanious parts from the parts diagram IN STOCK.

As you walk in, you are greeted by a 30's/40's johnson (onboard tank). They had outboard for sale ranging from a 50's Johnson Seahorse (3/3.5, I forget) through 60's evinrude fisherman's, to brand new motors.

Talking to the guy I bought a pressure tank from, Van's has been around for ever, and still has remaining stock of parts that can't be found elsewhere. All in all, it seemed like a good resource. They do nothing but outboards and some other two cycle engines. Their website isn't much or helpful, but they had everything I needed, including a new pressure tank gasket, in stock.

Last year I bought the last 2 sets of NOS 1971 Evinrude Lightwin 4 decals in the country from Van's. They also GAVE me the last set of decals for my ? height 3 U.S. gallon tank because it was only a partial set. Part of one of the decals was damaged so it was free. When the tank decal arrived it said "OMC Accessories", not "Evinrude". Still I can get some sets made up for the future since I think they are a neat period piece.

Thumbs up for Van's.

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

The motor is up and running, thanks to a carb rebuild, new plugs, a plastic tank and gravity.

The exhaust is spitting plenty of water, so I'll save my extra impeller for now. A lower unit oil change and the motor is good.

I am done with the pressure tanks. The one I bought is rust free and now clean thanks to my pressure washer. However, the foot that picks up fuel is clogged. I haven't been able to get the screws out of my original tank. One is holding me up.

Still, I'm buying a Mikuni today and ditching this goofy technology. I'm sure it's great if it hasn't sat for 20 years, but that ship has sailed.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Did you try an impact screwdriver for the screw? They work well.

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

I've got the screwdriver slot pretty buggered up from the screwdriver and the vice grips. I was going to try the impact driver, but don't have a flathead driver. I'll have to take a saw blade to the slot and give that a shot. Its a corner screw that I can't get the grips on well.

Even assuming I make that work, I don't know if I have enough parts to make one functional tank. The new pump creates a suction, but when I blow throgh the hole I removed the foot from, I can barely get air to pass through the exterior fuel barb. Maybe it needs more pressure than my lungs can generate - maybe it needs to be disected and cleaned.

As for the old tank, the bottom of the tank is clean, but its rusted around the top rim (from what I can see of the edges visibile through the cap and infer from the difficult screws) and the pump plunger is frozen. It's hard to say any more without getting the top off.

These tanks can cruz-a-way.

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

SUCCESS!!!

Well samo, you inspired me to give the pressure tanks one more college try before I tore into the manifold for a conversion. I think I now have a functioning pressure tank.

Let me back up a minute. This morning I took the top off my boughten pressure tank because there was gunk in the bottom and I wanted to give it a good clean before pairing it up with my newly rebuilt carb.

Upon removing the top unit, I placed the foot in a jar of gas mix (the foot is too large in diameter for any gas can I have), and started pumping. Nothing.

So I removed the foot for further inspection. I couldn't get air to go through it in either direction. So I filled it with carb cleaner and let it sit. I also ran some carb cleaner through both ends of the pump, which I really didn't want to do. Still, like I said, I could barely get little if any air to pass through in the direction fuel should flow. Not good.

After my last post, I went out and started jamming a clothes hanger down the foot, tryting to loosen something up.

I was surprised to encounter a solid "thunk." Not the crumbly rust gunk I expected. After a couple dozen more thunks, I tried to blow through again, only to get a little air flow through, which quickly cut off.

Then the light went off. The foot has a freaking check valve built into it! I can suck air through (tasty), but it quick closes off when I try to blow.

This is how the thing works, when the plunger is depressed, the check valve in the foot closes, forcing gas out of the barb. (I thought this function would have been...well not in the foot). When the spring pushes the plunger (&diaphram?) back up, the check in the foot opens as fuel is drawn in.

Back to the pump portion of this unit. Armed with my epiphany and the remaining carb cleaner still festering in the pump, I gave it another shot. I covered the pump inlet (where I removed the foot) firmly with my thumb to simulate the check valve in the foot. I gave the plunger a good pump - nothing but tell-tale air resistance. Damn. I did it a few more times, taking my thumb off the hole on every upstroke. Finally, I was able to get carb cleaner spitting out of the fuel barb. Hmm. Good sign.

So, I figured what the hell, I'll try the original experiment again. I reattached the foot and got out my jar of fuel mix. I put the foot into the gas and started pumping. Sure enough, it got a little gas through. Then, the flood gates opened, and a shot of fuel spurted 3 feet across my patio. After that, it was like 1956 again. The fuel flowed easily and productively with every pump. I ran enough gas through to hopefully clear the carb cleaner out of the pump.

chinewalker was definately right. It's a fuel pump, not an air pump, and 3 or so pumps should fill the carb bowl.

Now, I'm off to scan the scan the gasket into a pdf for my computer. If i ever need another gasket (i.e. if I ever get the other tank open), I'll just print the document and trace it onto a sheet of cork gasket. The other gasket was plenty overpriced.

Hopefully everthing will work once I put this tank together and pair it with the motor.

 

[Sea18Horse]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

I would really urge you to revise your thinking on the water pump impeller issue and reviving a 50+ year old outboard in general. That impeller is at least 20 years old. It's working right now. But the thing is they always work fine, right up 'til the moment they don't any more. If you're very very lucky that moment will occur when it's in the test barrel and you're looking right at it. More likely though it will occur when your at wide open throttle tearing across the lake. You only get a few seconds of that and all your hard work will go up in smoke and steam.

These old motors can be every bit as reliable and trouble free as a new one. But 100% of the responsibility for that reliability lies with us alone. OMC did their part 50 years ago. That means replacing every "consumable" part on the motor. Pull start cord, pull start return spring, spark plug wires and boots, all of the fuel and air lines, the diaphragm in the fuel tank (very important) and the fuel line connector o-rings. All of these parts are readily available and relatively inexpensive. Any one of those two bit parts can end your boating day as surely as a blown power head. Good luck! And have fun with it!

Cheers..............Todd

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

I concur - replace the impeller! CHEAP insurance! Absolutely NOTHING worse than hearing the motor slow down and set up due to overheating. Especially when it's a sweet running motor you've brought back from the dead!

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Ok, I've been swayed. I'll replace the impeller before taking the old girl out on the lake. I kinda figured if it was ready to give out, it would go right away. That, and it appeared that most of the consumables on the motor had already been replaced. But, as Sea18Horse pointed out, its 20+ years old regardless. As good as the warm dry resting place was for the engine, it was probably that bad for the impeller, hoses, and other rubber/plastic items. I already have the impeller and accompanying seals (iBoats and Van's) in hand.

However, the non-fatal items will wait for off season replacement. It's almost July, and I'd like to get a worm in the water sooner than later.

I found and ordered pressure tank diaphrams (http://www.boatsportandtackle.com). Now that I have one working pressure tank (*crosses fingers*), I can dig into the other one without too much worry. Once I get the old gas out of it, I can be a little more aggressive with the last hold-out screw. (The local haz-waste drop off night is on my softball night, and I can't bring myself to pour 2+ gallons of gas out on the dirt, despite BP's assurances that "natural processes" will take care of it.) If I get the second tank going, I'll be more willing to tear apart and more thoroughly rebuild the first.

I have 4 O-rings (Van's) for the fuel line connector and was able to order 1 6' lenght of double-line hose.

DOES ANYONE KNOW the correct diameter for the hose connecting the fuel connector to the carb and manifold? The 1/4" line I have seems a little big.

Spark plug wires can wait. I think my magneto will get an overhaul off-season. When cleaning and gapping the points, I noticed an imperfection on one of the points I could not buff off. If I have to pull the flywheel off for one thing, I might as well replace them all.

I hope to post a video of this thing cruizing on the lake soon. Thanks again for the help so far.

 

[F_R]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Hoses are 3/16" inside diameter.

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Well, the pressure tank works. It leaks a bit at the plunger under pressure, so it'll need a diaphram and rebuild sooner than later.

With the pressure tank, I was able get the engine running long enough to tell that 75% of the time I'm running on one cylinder. But man, that one cylinder runs really well.

I already know the culpret. I don't have my service manual yet, but I'd bet $10 that the port (tiller)/ front side point controls the bottom cylinder, which is the one missing. That is the point which is pitted and I could not get completely clean. I had to settle for using some stiff metal strapping covered with 400-grit sand paper. I'll get my hands on a point file and see if that will do he trick.

ANY SUGGESTIONS for coils/points/condesors? From the dealer? Sierra? Other?

 

[Sea18Horse]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Well, the pressure tank works. It leaks a bit at the plunger under pressure, so it'll need a diaphram and rebuild sooner than later.

Bummer, oh well it's really not too hard. There are some small parts in there like the disc check valve for the outlet of the primer pump and the pressure relief valve and spring.

One tip that may help is that there are cupped washers on either side of the diaphragm where the plunger bolts through the diaphragm. The upper washer will likely be all rusted. You'll want to clean the rust off as best you can and then use that washer on the under side. You want a nice clean washer to seal against the step in the plunger. Otherwise gas can leak past the threads and out past the plunger. BTW make sure you get the right diaphragm. There are two types. One for metal plunger style tanks, and one for plastic button style tanks.

With the pressure tank, I was able get the engine running long enough to tell that 75% of the time I'm running on one cylinder. But man, that one cylinder runs really well.

I already know the culpret. I don't have my service manual yet, but I'd bet $10 that the port (tiller)/ front side point controls the bottom cylinder, which is the one missing. That is the point which is pitted and I could not get completely clean. I had to settle for using some stiff metal strapping covered with 400-grit sand paper. I'll get my hands on a point file and see if that will do he trick.

ANY SUGGESTIONS for coils/points/condesors? From the dealer? Sierra? Other?

Well, if both of your coils are that pastel green color then that means they've been replaced and so there's an excellent chance that they're fine. Still eyeball them really close for any signs of cracks. For points and condensers I like OMC but in all reality Sierra are probably perfectly fine too. If you decide to replace the plug wires (and if you remove the mag plate and disturb them in any way you should) keep in mind you need metal core wire. Regular automotive plug wire doesn't work. The ones from laingsoutboards.com work well. Your local place probably has something comparable. Good luck!

Cheers....................Todd

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Thanks Todd.

My local place stocks an OMC tune up kit (OMC#172522). So I'm going to pick that up along with a harmonic balancer puller and a torque wrench. I'll give the coils a good once over while I have the flywheel off.

Does anyone know the correct torque for the flywheel nut? Everything I see says 45 ft/lbs. I'm still waiting for my service manual.... Dang eBay.

Also, given that I'll be purchasing a torque wrench anyhow, and I have low compression (low 70's psi), would it be worth it to pick up a head gasket? Then I'll need to find the bolt tightening pattern too....

Given how well and smooth my one cylinder runs (except when the other one kicks in), I can't wait to get these last few issues cleared up.

 

[Sea18Horse]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Yes 45 lbs/ft is correct for the flywheel nut.

Since your compression readings were within a few lbs of each other I would say no. If they were dramatically different between the two cylinders that would be the logical first step. But if it were mine I'd only delve in there if I were tearing it down completely for a full cosmetic restoration. Too big of a potential can of worms. Good luck!

Cheers...............Todd

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

IT'S AAAALLLIIIIVVVEEE! ...... HELP!!!

First the good news. The motor is running like a top. Shame on me not listing to the initial advice I was given. I finally went into the armature and replaced the points, condensors, and spark plug wires.

The old point were well pitted and needed to be changed. The coils look good. After that it started right up. I spent some time setting the low speed idle. It clicks along like a watch.

Now the bad news. I have been waiting on the lower unit oil change and planning on doing that the same time as the impeller.

Now that I know the engine runs well, I decided it was time to tackle those two.

Soooo, I pop the drain screw to see if I'm dealing with milky fluid or not. How about clear? --as in water dripped out with a bit of oil on top, but more more water.

Now it wan't all that much, maybe enough to cover a silve dollar sized area in the drain pan. Oh, and the drain and vent screws had no seals on them....brilliant.

So, what should I do? Before this, I had already purchased a seal for the prop shaft. a spaghetti seal for the lower unit, and new drain screws (AND SEALS....).

I plan on just dropping the bottom portion of the lower unit, cleaning everyting up, probably hit it with some wd-40 or rubbing alcohol to make sure the water is gone, and putting it back together with the new seals.

Anything I should looking for as I go through? Anything extra I should be looking to disassmble and dry out? Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

One other thing. The water was clear and clean, surpisingly. The unit was in the barrel for maybe an hour total over the time I've spent running it and trying to run it.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

I would refill it with fresh lower unit oil, reinstall the drain and vent screws with new washers and run it. Get an hour or two of run time on it and check the lower unit oil again.

 

[Sea18Horse]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

I was thinking the same thing. But I don't think I'd be comfortable running that long on an unknown water pump. Maybe one hard run up the lake, keeping a careful eye on things. It would be nice to know that the dogs on forward gear are ok before tearing into the gear case.

Being a 7.5 The power head needs to be removed to replace the water pump doesn't it? I've never done one but I understand it's not too difficult. I think if it were me I'd go ahead and replace the water pump impeller, replace the drain and fill plugs and gaskets and refill the lower unit. You would want to take the prop off first and check for any fishing line wrapped around the shaft or any obvious damage to the seal. Run it for an outing or two and then drain the lower unit and check for water.

In the mean time you can be rounding up the other two seals. More often than not it's the shift shaft seal that leaks. Replacing that requires the only real "special tool" needed for these. A 5/16" rod stepped to 1/4" on the end to drive the shift rod bushing out from inside. Don't quote me on the dimensions your manual can give you a better idea. Good luck!

Cheers..................Todd

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Yup, I had to remove the powerhead. Thank goodness for holiday weekends, b/c I pulled a late one last night. I wasn't going to let water sit in that lower unit and ruin my progress.

The good news is that everyting looks good as you can see below.

I have replaced the impeller, the base plat for the pump, and the spaghetti seal. The new prop seal I bought appears to be incorrect.

Now, the two times I have run the motor, I have gotten a thick, black oil slick across the top of the barrel. So, I believe lower unit oil has been leaking out. Also the old spaghetti seal was flattened, and the lower unit is buggered up a bit on the foward portion of where the skeg attaches. Still, the seal grove and seat were fine.

I've pulled everthing apart, blew it off, hit it with water displacing oil, and wiped it down. It's now ready to be filled up.

I think I'll take it out for a cruise, like I've been dying to do, then drain the oil and see what I find.

Thanks guys.

 

[TN-25]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

...Now, the two times I have run the motor, I have gotten a thick, black oil slick across the top of the barrel. So, I believe lower unit oil has been leaking out...

That in itself does not indicate a lower unit leak. You are going to get that when you run a 24:1 gas / oil mix on one of these old kickers in a barrel.

You are making great progress.

 

[Hofzer]

Re: Reviving 1956 Evinrude Fleetwin 7.5 - Pressure Tank Issue

Let's see if this works:

http://s975.photobucket.com/albums/ae235/Hofzer/?action=view&current=20100705162721.mp4