Weight/people capacity

[Kaplooi]

Re: Weight/people capacity

Like I said in the post, the kids are all small. All three weighed together wouldn't hit 100 lbs. So, the whole family and gear is half or maybe more the weight capacity. I'm certainly not going near that number.

I just wanted to know if it was OK to have more people if you were still under the 1200 lbs. It sounds like the answer is "NO!"

I'll attempt an explanation of the 'No' answer. I believe the reason a specific number of people is enumerated in addition to a maximum weight is because of the difference between people and inanimate objects. Basically people can and do move around while onboard which radically shifts around the weight in the boat in a way that static, immobile objects wouldn't. This is what is taken into account when the max persons capacity is decided. On my boat you can definitely feel how the handling changes when someone walks to the stern or a few people shift to one side of the boat. If you could get all your passengers loaded so the boat was balanced and have them stay perfectly still and not shift around one bit for the entire duration of your time on the water, then you could probably go up to your maximum weight rating 'safely' but it'll never happen, especially with lots of 'light' people which to me suggests several children onboard who will NOT be sitting still all the time

 

[convergent]

Re: Weight/people capacity

The reason I had skiers/wakeboards in a different category than tubers is that at some point, you probably will have them in the boat. Certainly if they are hurt, you need the excess capacity. Whereas with a tuber, the tube itself is a craft to some extent. (aka, if floats!)

Yep, I get what you are saying. I'm obviously not doing the ideal here. I wouldn't go cruising 10 miles off shore like this, or even in one of the larger local lakes.

 

[dirtyoldman]

Re: Weight/people capacity

I'll attempt an explanation of the 'No' answer. I believe the reason a specific number of people is enumerated in addition to a maximum weight is because of the difference between people and inanimate objects. Basically people can and do move around while onboard which radically shifts around the weight in the boat in a way that static, immobile objects wouldn't. This is what is taken into account when the max persons capacity is decided. On my boat you can definitely feel how the handling changes when someone walks to the stern or a few people shift to one side of the boat. If you could get all your passengers loaded so the boat was balanced and have them stay perfectly still and not shift around one bit for the entire duration of your time on the water, then you could probably go up to your maximum weight rating 'safely' but it'll never happen, especially with lots of 'light' people which to me suggests several children onboard who will NOT be sitting still all the time

That Makes a lot of sense - Thanks!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Weight/people capacity

First, I wouldn't "call and ask" or even ask one LEO on the water; the one who stops you might see things different. And the one you ask might give you the legal answer while the one who stops you might cut you a break for the extra little ones.

As for safety concerns: weight is obvious. But a crowded boat is a danger to its occupants, too. You could not all "move to the front" for example if there was an electrical fire in the rear; you couldn't all scamble at once for the stowed pfd's, etc. It will be harder for the captain to account for everyone, although that's true in a legal boat with a lot of people. So just like driving 5 over the speed limit isn't always dangerous, it can be.

As for a tuber not being a passenger: If I were the LEO and you argued that one, I'd write you two tickets: one for being a smart*ss and one for being a dumb*ss. I don't think it's safe to operate an overcrowded/overloaded boat and pull tubes at the same time. And they will get in the boat sometime.

As for the officer cutting you some slack, depends on a lot of circumstances, including where and how you are operating, and how others out there are operating.

it makes sense for the rating plate to already factor in the motor--every boat has one and why make the captain guess?

I have a 17' boat rated for 4, a 19' boat rated for 10, and a 21' boat rated for 8. Hull designs matter more than length.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Weight/people capacity

Besides the seating and the capacity of the boat in weight, the Coast Guard takes into consideration how well the boat will handle in adverse conditions.

The boat can easily be over loaded and still be floating and look fine, even underway. But out on the water, one big wake or rogue wave and you will quickly find out that the boat just doesn't want to ride up over the wave, it plows through, or stuffs the bow in to the next wave, or rolls dangerously as water pours in over the side or bow. Or worse, it just capsizes. Being already overloaded, it does not take much to swamp the boat. Without flotation foam, it goes down. Otherwise, it floats at or near the surface.

I have had my boat loaded to capacity, and it does not feel good when avoidance maneuvers are needed or big waves have to be handled. Its slow and sluggish.

 

[sethjon]

Re: Weight/people capacity

The weight would be fine but if you get stopped by a patrol boat the law is peope regardless of wt.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Weight/people capacity

Every time I read one of these threads the first thing that comes to mind is why in the heck would anyone want 8 people in an 18' or a 20' boat for matter in the first place?

I go out in the boat to get away from the hustle and bustle of life. Anymore than four people on the boat is a crowd. Riding in a crowded elevator sounds more appealing than eight people on a small boat.

 

[wildspeed]

Re: Weight/people capacity

Under the U.S. Coast Guard Federal Boat Safety Act of 1971, boats less than 20 feet powered with an inboard, outboard, or stern drive engine manufactured after November 1, 1972, must display a capacity plate defining the safe load limits. This plate must be mounted where you can see it when preparing to get underway

dirtyoldman posted that he has a 21',
so by law it could remove the capacty plate, load 7 people and be legal ?
I don't encourage or say this a smart thing to do, but wondering the legality of doing so.

 

[convergent]

Re: Weight/people capacity

First, I wouldn't "call and ask" or even ask one LEO on the water; the one who stops you might see things different. And the one you ask might give you the legal answer while the one who stops you might cut you a break for the extra little ones.

If you call the agency, they should be able to tell you what the law is. Whether or not the guy in the field follows the law is always an issue with any law. Otherwise all this is speculation.

As for safety concerns: weight is obvious.
But a crowded boat is a danger to its occupants, too. You could not all "move to the front" for example if there was an electrical fire in the rear; you couldn't all scamble at once for the stowed pfd's, etc. It will be harder for the captain to account for everyone, although that's true in a legal boat with a lot of people. So just like driving 5 over the speed limit isn't always dangerous, it can be.

If I am in sight of the dock and my boat catches on fire to the point of me wanting to move to the other end of the boat, then I think I'm choosing to get in the water, as would all the people in the boat. As I said... very small lake, in sight of the ramp... easy to get to shore.

My point about the speeding thing is that it seems that reading some of these discussions people are extremely worried about following every detail of every law on their boat, but then they don't do so when they get in there car. You could argue that all speeding is unsafe, but I dare say that most highways I've driven on I tend to be the slowest car on the road, and I'm speeding!

As for a tuber not being a passenger: If I were the LEO and you argued that one, I'd write you two tickets: one for being a smart*ss and one for being a dumb*ss. I don't think it's safe to operate an overcrowded/overloaded boat and pull tubes at the same time. And they will get in the boat sometime.

Was that really necessary? I told you that if I got a ticket, then I'd not argue with the officer about it... the law is the law. I am not a dumb*ss for applying a little physics and common sense to the situation here and considering the safety element. There is the element of legality, and there is the element of safety. When I watch some guy go out from the ramp in a powered jonboat with 5 people in it vs. my 17.5' boat with 5 people operating at idle speed, I think I'm way on the other end of the safety curve. For all I know, his boat has a plate that says 5 people is OK, but I can guarantee you that in this little lake there is a far greater chance of his boat being capsized than mine.

As for the officer cutting you some slack, depends on a lot of circumstances, including where and how you are operating, and how others out there are operating.

it makes sense for the rating plate to already factor in the motor--every boat has one and why make the captain guess?

I have a 17' boat rated for 4, a 19' boat rated for 10, and a 21' boat rated for 8. Hull designs matter more than length.

My understanding from other similar threads here is that the US Coast Guard determines weight by using the length times the beam times some fixed factor. Do they use different factors for different hull designs?

As for the rating plate factoring in the motor, how does that work with an outboard? My motor is well under the max HP motor which would weigh more and propel the boat at a faster speed. I would think that a heavier faster motor would effect the weight you could safely carry in the boat, no?

Obviously the US Coast Guard doesn't want ambiguity in their rules, so the plate has to be simple for enforcement. My understanding is that some states have laws to enforce the plate, and some don't. As you've said, an individual officer is most likely going to consider a lot of things, not the least of which being whether you are driving like a maniac, drinking, being an @ss (whichever kind ), etc.

My whole point here was to say that there is a legal side to this (which varies by location) and a safety side to it.

 

[skargo]

Re: Weight/people capacity

So you are saying it is the lesser of 8 people or 1200 lbs?

No more than 8 people or 1200 pounds, whichever you hit first. You could never have 8 of me on your boat!

 

[skargo]

Re: Weight/people capacity

Every time I read one of these threads the first thing that comes to mind is why in the heck would anyone want 8 people in an 18' or a 20' boat for matter in the first place?

I go out in the boat to get away from the hustle and bustle of life. Anymore than four people on the boat is a crowd. Riding in a crowded elevator sounds more appealing than eight people on a small boat.

Agreed 100%! I like it when it's my wife and I! We like to get away.
I crack up when I see a smaller craft with 8-10 people in it, obviously overloaded, nuts to butts! Not my idea of fun at all, especially when it's hot as it's been lately.

Different strokes I guess...

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Weight/people capacity

I see a lot of people here asking about "what boat to buy" who have the impression that a boat rated for 8 will be comfortable for 8. Not often so, but they want to save money on boat size and still accomodate the whole family reunion. Of course it depends on what you are doing, but 4 guys fishing on a 8-rated boat is about the max. OTOH you can pack in a lot of small fry to go boat riding.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Weight/people capacity

1. The placard limits are whichever is lower (weight or number of people).

2. Tubers (no, not the potato kind), water-skiers, and wakeboarders, etc. count in the capacity number.

3. The numbers are determined by a fairly complicated certification process if the boat is commercially built. The formula someone referred to is for homemade boats.

4. The placard numbers pertain to a properly distributed load and calm conditions. Adjust downward for less than ideal conditions.

The Coast Guard and other law enforcement officials can terminate your voyage immediately if you are determined to be grossly overloaded. Not fun any way you look at it.

 

[Beefer]

Re: Weight/people capacity

The Coast Guard and other law enforcement officials can terminate your voyage immediately if you are determined to be grossly overloaded. Not fun any way you look at it.

How do they terminate your voyage? Just curious. Do they escort you back to your dock/marina/ramp?

 

[Hawk Eyes]

Re: Weight/people capacity

Here's what the AUX has to say.

http://auxpa.org/weblog/blogs/index.php/2010/06/04/know-your-boatarsquo-s-capacity-1

 

[Hawk Eyes]

Re: Weight/people capacity

How do they terminate your voyage? Just curious. Do they escort you back to your dock/marina/ramp?

Ya they escort you back. They may bring some passengers on board their vessel to mitigate the risk of being overloaded.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Weight/people capacity

and whenever the coast gaurd tows you, they make everyone put on those goofy orange life preservers, like some kind of badge of shame.

 

[Thad]

Re: Weight/people capacity

and whenever the coast gaurd tows you, they make everyone put on those goofy orange life preservers, like some kind of badge of shame.

Something you wish to share?