Thinking about doing a transom replacement

[diskord]

So I first have to admit, I am somewhat crushed and terrified at the same time. I purchased a 1966 Reinell 2 weeks ago, spent a couple hundred bucks and got her in what I thought was tip top shape. Had her out this weekend in the beautiful sun and pulled a couple of new skiers, all 3 guys it was their first time skiing and they all got up and were completely converted in to thinking this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I put the boat in the water tonight, I go to take off and my wife yells that "the back of the boat is falling off!"

Now she is a bit over dramatic, but of course I whip around to see what is going on, and while the back of the boat ISN'T falling off, what I do see absolutely tears me up. There is a huge crack on the inside of the transom running across the whole thing, and dead center on the transom the paint has come off from flexing wood and the wood there is completely rotten. When I give the outboard even a little bit of gas you can see the entire transom flex in half horizontally right along that huge crack.

So of course I am now in for a transom replacement.... ugh. The good news is the fiberglass on the outside of the hull is in good condition, it just looks like the plywood inside needs to be replaced.

So now the big question, do I do it, and how much work am I really looking at here? I figure I am going to have to pull the motor, which I don't really have any way to do, and I am guessing I am going to have to split her in half and take the top off... which again looking around I see that there are a bunch of nuts to remove the trim, and once the trim is off my guess is the top lifts off... but I don't have a tractor or anything to be able to do that.

Then once it is all disassembled, I have to admit I have NO CLUE on what I will need to do to replace the transom. I am guessing I somehow need to pull the old one out, use it is a pattern, get some new plywood and cut it the same and drop it in... which in theory sounds easy but things rarely go easy for me.

I know I am asking the "this is nuts" crowd, which may be the wrong crowd to ask, but should I go for it? I want to give the wife a realistic expectation on cost and time. Are we talking 20 hours and $500? are we talking 100 hours and $2000?

Just completely gutted right now, my very first boat, after dreaming about owning one for YEARS... and now she probably is done for the summer and who knows how much longer. Ugh, I feel like someone punched me in the stomach.

Edit: Here is a photo of the transom crack on the inside, note the paint has flaked away, but prior to the crack it didn't look like this.

Edit2: Here are links to 2 youtube videos I just shot showing the damage
Interior shot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNBIddnzhIU
Exterior shot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDBUOBszhsc

 

[JAFO1]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

I'm no pro. I too just got my first boat, a 1986 Skeeter bass boat. But I knew it would need work. I popped the cap off and cut the stringers and what was left of the deck out. I thought I would get by without having to redo the transom. I cut some fiberglass for inspection. It was soaked. I found the more I looked, the more wet I found. So, now I'm down to bare hull, and ready to start rebuilding. I've worked the better part of two weeks tearing everything down and probably spent about $30 between Harbor Fright and Home Depot. Today, I got everything lined up for the deck, transom and stringers. Plywood, glass and resin. So, depending on the weather, I could have the deck done by the end of the week. I've been able to put so many hours in because I'm on vacation. So, it is very doable. Lots of help here. You will often read "check out oops! hull extension thread." It covers almost everything you will run into. Read the FAQ sticky at the top of the Restoration page. Plan on spending on two to three times, or more, what you estimate in time and money. Go for it! Have fun!

 

[Coho Ghost]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Diskord,

You are pretty much like most all of us first time old boat buyers; what looks at glance as just fine turns out to be a major rebuild.

Last fall I bought a Livingston Pacific Skiff, a 15 footer. I liked the design for fishing, knew NOTHING about how deteriorated fiberglass boats can be, bought it thinking I was in "fat city". The transom core was totally rotten on closer inspection, AFTER I got it home. I opted for the NIDA core pourable ceramic core replacement, about $600.00+ in that job. Currently I'm using the boat, and pretending the floor deck is "just fine". NOT!!!! So then next winter I'll probably replace the decking and sub-structure.

Had to put $300.00+ into the trailer to get it really reliable.

The motor needed some repairs/tune up work for $500.00 (I'm not a motor guy)

After its all said and done, it should be what I thought I originally bought, BUT I'll never be able to get back what I've got in it.

I'm down I Chehalis if you need any help/advice on your project. pm me if you'd like. My first name is Steve

Coho Ghost

 

[diskord]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

I am not looking to do a "full" restoration, pulling the decking and doing stringers and foam and the whole 10 yards, ideally I just want to get the transom fixed so I can get back out on the lake.

As I look at it tho, I don't really see any way that I can redo the transom without having to tear up at least some of the decking, am I missing something?

Assuming I can get the motor off, and the boat split in two, what sort of steps am I looking at here.

I know I need to get all of the old plywood out, once the plywood is out do I need to do any sort of grinding?

Then it looks like I need to get some plywood (is there special plywood, or any 3/4" plywood will work?) cut them in to two transom patterns that I have to glue together.

Then comes the confusing epoxy, rosin, resin, gluing, fiberglass magic that I don't fully understand (but to be fair, that seems so far in to my future I am not worried about it... yet). From what I can tell I want to "glue" the new transom plywood on to the back of the fiberglass shell. Once that is done it looks like people do a small layup of fiberglass to get a nice looking seal between the decking and the transom. Do I need to do anything to attach it to the stringers or anything, or do I just need to glue it to the back of the hull?

Then once that is all done, it's reassemble the top back on, drill out holes for motor mounts, drain plug, etc, re-attach motor, and then pray that everything works?

Am I missing anything glariningly obvious in the steps I will need to take if I want to do this?

 

[phantomv170]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

To lift the motor you will need one of these.

Mercury Mariner Flywheel Puller Lifting Ring New Tool

search on fleabay for one, its about 35 bucks.

 

[diskord]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Also, I was looking at pourable transom options like the NIDA core or the Seacast, but almost everyone that seems to do that has fiberglass on both sides and is just pouring between them. I only have fiberglass on one side (the hull) and then maybe a thin strip or 2 of fiberglass on the inside, but nothing of any sort of substance that I could pour through.

Would doing a pourable transom be a lot more work and expense for a transom like mine? The only way I could see it working is if I somehow built a dam of some sort that was the exact same size as my transom and then put it in place, poured between the hull and the dam, and then removed the dam... but if I am going to go to that level of work I might as well just do the plywood on the transom.

Yeeks. I am getting nervous because now I am thinking I might actually be able to do this job... and I am one of those people where EVERYTHING seems to go wrong once they get in to a job.

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

This might not be a lot of help but hopefully it can be encouraging.

I think many of us here experience a LOT of the same story. I have been on the water as far back as I can remember. At 19 my dad had me in a Sea School to get my 100 ton masters license (That did not go so well). Around 21 my dad and I started our own Charter boat. That lasted about 5 years, my son was born and I had to get a real job We easily had 50k in to that boat. Thinking back on it, I cant go as far as saying it was a complete piece of junk but it was WAY over priced. There were a couple of other boats that we fished with that were considerably older and much less inexpensive that out handled our boat 10 to 1.

I learned a lot in those years working on the boat with my dad. The most valuable lesson I learned was that your boat does not have to be fancy and flashy to be functional and work great. Unless of course you want it to.

That kind of brings up my point though.

In the fall my dad bought another boat and moved from the Seattle area to come live with my wife and I. This one being smaller and a lot more modest. We fished with the boat through the fall in to the winter.

I will try to shorten this story up.....

The previous owner(s?) of this boat really messed up some things horribly. My dad and I being very experienced on the water completely missed all of the signs. DONT beat yourself up for missing it when you bought the boat!

We learned that our boat was badly water logged from the foam. So we thought "Oh, no problem. We can just cut a few pieces of the deck out and get rid of the heavy stuff" How wrong we were!

Countless hours later I am in the middle of fixing our boat. I dont have a shop or a garage. I only have a canopy tent that you would buy at Costco.

While I know nothing about fiberglassing I have spent hours and hours reading here on iboats about others who experienced the same troubles. The folks here are a HUGE help. I came to iboats tonight to ask for some advice on repairing my boats and saw your post. Each and everyone of us feel your pain. Its like getting kicked in the stomach over and over and not having an end in site.

Turns out I absolutely love working on my boat. Its been hard, dealing with the heat and endless sun burns but its one of the most rewarding feelings I have ever experienced.

I am so far from finished its not even funny. I need a lot of help but everyone here is so eager to help everyone regardless of their skill level. Without iboats I can very very honestly say that my boat would be growing moss right now sitting in a storage shed.

Its going to take a long time and be a lot of work (thats my experience so far anyway). Oh and buy stock in your local sandpaper company because it seems you can never have enough Acetone, gloves and sand paper Dont forget the respirator!

You will VERY proudly tell your friends that you rebuilt this boat and are darn proud of it. In the end you can look back on it and know that you did it right and its a better job then that factory did.

Its late now for me, I will make my cry for help tomorrow (thats an attempt at humor) but I really hope this gives a little encouragement

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

There is NO easy way to fix your problem. You will HAVE to replace the transom the good old fashioned way. Search the forum for Transom Replacement and you will see how it is done. Nida Bond POURED Transoms run Between 5- 7 hundred dollars but you still have to tear out the old transom. Sorry to break the BAD News but there is just NO Short cut to solve your problem.:redface:

 

[diskord]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

12 hours and a fitful nights sleep later I am slowly coming to grips with the size/scope of project that I am going to be dealing with here. I am pretty confident I can get the outboard off, not easily but with the mercury i-bolt tool and a rented engine hoist I think I have an idea how to do that. I also am pretty confident (90%?) on how the top shell attaches to the lower hull, but here is my next big question:

How heavy/strong is that top shell? My boat is only about 16 feet long, I will be lifting off the closed bow, the windshields, the steering column, the dash and the splash guard in the back as one big unit. Can I just get 3-4 guys over, put someone in each corner and lift this sucker off and drop it in my lawn somewhere, or is this going to be way too heavy/brittle/fragile to do that? How much do I need to worry about snapping the top in half?

I tried to read other restoration threads, and most people just have pictures and comments of boat together and then magically the boat is split in 2 and I am confused how much planning/work/etc that is to get that top off once I have all the rivets/screws/bolts/etc removed that connect the 2.

Edit:
Just thought of a second question. My wife has watched a fair amount of videos on how to do a transom replacement as well now, the good news is she seems super supportive of me in my moment of crisis, lol. She has watched a few videos, and I have read a few threads here that talk of doing the same thing, and that is: cutting the splash well off.

Instead of popping the entire cap off the boat, might it be easier/faster/cheaper/etc to just make 2 cuts on the rear splash well, pull it off, do the transom replacement, and then fiberglass the splash well back in? This terrifies me for several reasons: 1) I have never done fiberglass work ever in any form, so I have no idea how easy it is to "repair" the splash well if I cut it out and 2) Is the splash well part of the structure of the boat, by cutting it would I be significantly reducing the structure of my boat and making it dangerous, or is it just there to catch water?

I am nervous about taking the entire top off the boat, only because I don't know how heavy/hard that would be, but I am just as nervous about cutting up fiberglass to get access to the transom as well.

 

[petermarcus]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Sometimes there's some caulk in there, but really the only thing holding the two together is the rivets and screws.

On a 16', I don't think the cap will be too heavy, and it's both strong and flexible. I'm guessing you should be able to do it with a few buddies, but if you're renting the cherry picker anyway, you might be able to wrap a chain around something near the center of the cap and pick up the cap with the picker, with your buddies holding the corners to guide and make sure it doesn't tip.

If you scan through the threads here, many, many of us were beginners at the first post, then became quite experienced by the end through our own successes (and accidents!) Mine is my second restoration -- I wasn't on this forum the first time and I know I did a ton of very basic things wrong that I learned about here in reading just one or two threads. Overall, though, it's just a bit of carpentry and mechanics.

Pictures would help us help you a lot. But, in theory, the way I'd tackle it would be to take off the outboard, remove the cap, remove a foot or two of deck near the transom, scrape out the transom, then check the bottom of the deck and the stringers (the fore-and-aft beams the deck sits on) for rot.

The sad truth is that few boatmakers sealed the ends of the stringers or deck where they touched the transom, and if the transom is rotted, there's likely damage to the stringers and deck, too. But, they're not that much harder to fix than the transom. If you take the right steps, the boat will be rock solid and last another 40 years.

As far as costs, you're looking at exterior plywood (AC or BC), resin (check uscomposites.com for poly or epoxy costs), and maybe foam depending on what it looks like under your deck.

 

[diskord]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Sometimes there's some caulk in there, but really the only thing holding the two together is the rivets and screws.

On a 16', I don't think the cap will be too heavy, and it's both strong and flexible. I'm guessing you should be able to do it with a few buddies, but if you're renting the cherry picker anyway, you might be able to wrap a chain around something near the center of the cap and pick up the cap with the picker, with your buddies holding the corners to guide and make sure it doesn't tip.

If you scan through the threads here, many, many of us were beginners at the first post, then became quite experienced by the end through our own successes (and accidents!) Mine is my second restoration -- I wasn't on this forum the first time and I know I did a ton of very basic things wrong that I learned about here in reading just one or two threads. Overall, though, it's just a bit of carpentry and mechanics.

Pictures would help us help you a lot. But, in theory, the way I'd tackle it would be to take off the outboard, remove the cap, remove a foot or two of deck near the transom, scrape out the transom, then check the bottom of the deck and the stringers (the fore-and-aft beams the deck sits on) for rot.

The sad truth is that few boatmakers sealed the ends of the stringers or deck where they touched the transom, and if the transom is rotted, there's likely damage to the stringers and deck, too. But, they're not that much harder to fix than the transom. If you take the right steps, the boat will be rock solid and last another 40 years.

As far as costs, you're looking at exterior plywood (AC or BC), resin (check uscomposites.com for poly or epoxy costs), and maybe foam depending on what it looks like under your deck.

Thanks for the advice, I am thinking just pulling the cap off is the way to go. I will try and take some pictures, it's hard to know WHAT to take pictures of since I have never done this before, lol.

On thing I noticed is that on the lower part of the transom, where it intersects with the bilge, that area of the transom is only about 3/4" thick, while the rest of the transom is 1.5" thick. If you look at the picture above you can kind of see what I am talking about. Is there a reason to make my transom thinner in the bilge area, or am I okay to just get a slightly longer drain for my bilge and make my entire transom a uniform 1.5" thickness.

 

[petermarcus]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

I'm not quite as familiar with the outboard transoms, I've only had I/Os which require an exact thickness in places -- like mine needs to be between 2" and 2 1/4" thick and no more/less where the housing is mounted.

I'd check to see if that gap is there below the deck on either side of the stringers, too. I don't see a problem with uniform thickness, but post some picks of under the deck and maybe someone with an outboard will chime in. Maybe it helps with drainage?

 

[Greg Mrozinski]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Disk,

The amount you fix depends on how long you plan on keeping the boat. If you only plan on keeping it a few years do the least amount of repair as possible. If you plan on keeping it for a very long time you should consider a complete refurb of not only the transom, but also the stringers and the floor. It is difficult to attach new material to old unless you can properly prep the old. If there is not much left of the old then you are heading to a complete job anyway...and in some respects it is easier to demo everything and start from scratch.

Also cutting out the splash is a doable option. That is what I did and it worked out fine. There will be some glass and finishing work in the end of course but by then you will be a glassing fool and that won't faze you a bit.

PS - Go with poly resin and glass. No need for expensive epoxy here.

Have fun!

 

[diskord]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Disk,

The amount you fix depends on how long you plan on keeping the boat. If you only plan on keeping it a few years do the least amount of repair as possible. If you plan on keeping it for a very long time you should consider a complete refurb of not only the transom, but also the stringers and the floor. It is difficult to attach new material to old unless you can properly prep the old. If there is not much left of the old then you are heading to a complete job anyway...and in some respects it is easier to demo everything and start from scratch.

Also cutting out the splash is a doable option. That is what I did and it worked out fine. There will be some glass and finishing work in the end of course but by then you will be a glassing fool and that won't faze you a bit.

PS - Go with poly resin and glass. No need for expensive epoxy here.

Have fun!

This brings up one of the questions I have... are the deck stringers attached to the transom somehow? I have been confused by this since I started reading all these threads. A lot of the pictures just show the transom glued to the back of the boat, and I guess I haven't bothered to look enough to see if the stringers attach to it somehow, or are they just butted up against it?

I only plan on keeping this boat for a couple of years, this is my first boat to see if my wife likes it and my girls like it, someday I want to move to an I/O with power trim and steering and all the other goodies that a "newer" (read: built after 1970) boat comes with. So I am not looking to do a full restore, but would prefer to fix it back up to "usable" condition. Hence my trepidation about cutting too much of the deck up as well, since I am 95% sure it is filled with rotten stringers and wet foam. I didn't know this when I bought it... sure wish I had read THIS forum before I bought my boat. This whole subforum should be required reading for anyone that wants to buy a used boat, would have saved me some massive headaches if instead of being blinded by excitement I had just bothered to look for some very obvious signs that the boat was in need of some pretty serious repair.

Oh well, at least it's a learning experience, and I only spent $900 on the boat... I mean I would love to have that $900 back, but at the end of the day it isn't 4,5, or even 10 grand I have read people spent only to find out their brand new toy needs major work.

 

[Greg Mrozinski]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Don't beat yourself up about the boat. It's learning.

Most times the stringer are attched and glassed to the bottom of the transom. That helps the engine load transfer from the transom through to the stringers. Like I was trying to say before you might have to repair some of the stringers at the transom anyway. Once you start digging into this you usually find everything is gone and then you have to make some decisions as to the path forward.

Good luck. You can do it this.

 

[Coho Ghost]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Diskord,

You asked about the NIDA core pourable transom material. In the post above I mentioned I had gone that route. It is about $132.00 for five gallons of it. Their website had a diagram on calculating how much you need. The kicker is the shipping cost to get it up here to the NW. six gallons (what I needed) was $105.00. It comes only is 5 gallon units, but they do occasionally have one gallons available. I had to wait two weeks for a one gallon unit to come available, which they gave me, I just had to pay the shipping.
To do a NIDA transom you will need to laminate in an "inner" skin in front of the outer transom skin to form the space to pour the material. It's not that hard, just get a large piece if formica and wax it with release wax, one layer of chopped strand matte, and two of 6 oz. cloth layed up on it should be rigid enough to cut a piece transom size and tab in place. Tab simply means use about 3" wide glass cloth tape to bond the perimeter of the inner skin to the sides and bottom of the boat Adding an additional layer to the skin once it is bonded in probably would be a good idea. All laminating work must be done with either poly ester or vinyl ester resins. Absolutely no epoxy! The NIDA must contact surfaces laminated with poly or vinyl to bond properly. The real work is all the prep, actually pouring the transom is a piece of cake. I did it by my self, took about an hour at the most. It's pretty remarkable stuff. I can grab the lower unit of my motor and just horse it up and down and there is no visible flex.
NIDA has great tech support. If you decide to go that route, the phone number is on their website, call and talk to them about your project.
You might also consider a trip to Fiberlay in south Seattle, they have all the laminating stuff - cloth, resin, catalyst, mixing containers, etc., etc. and are a big help in selecting the appropiate stuff for your project. They aren't the cheapest, buttheir stuff is top quality and readily available. They have a website too, and do mail order.


Good luck,
Coho Ghost

diskord - check your pm's

 

[diskord]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Thanks for all the encouragement guys! I am actually starting to believe I can do this... which is terrifying. The one downside is I figure I only have 1-2 months to get this whole project complete, I don't have a garage large enough to hold the boat and the cap, so if I am going to do this I need to get it done before the rains start again here (and in the Northwest, that won't be in too long). I better get cracking.

Not sure if this is the right board to post it in, but now I am a little confused on how to remove my outboard from my boat. I got most of the linkage off, I just have 2 minor questions.

1) The steering is just a cable system, I unhooked one side, can I just keep cranking the steering wheel and suck that cable in to be able to unhook it, is that the right way to remove the steering linkage? It seems easy enough, just don't want to mess all that cabling up by doing something wrong.

2) The throttle and idle linkage has me befuddled. There is some sort of clamp/snap inside the motor that kinda releases them, but I for the life of me can't figure out how I disconnect them. I will take some pictures when I get home and post them up if people are confused by what I am talking about.

 

[Paul eagen]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

I pulled the cap off of my boat a couple months ago. I used tie down down ratchet straps the ones with the hooks on them. I wrapped one end around the rafters of the garage and the other end I hooked under the gunwhales. One on each side in the back and the middle, then in the front I hooked them on to the cleats. I slowly ratched them up a little at a time to put some tension on it,(of course that was after I pulled the rub rail and removed all the rivets), with a little help with a putty knife an a hammer the cap popped right off. Then I just raised it enough to put some 2x4's under it. With a few friends we just lifted it up removed the hooks and carried it out in the yard.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Thinking about doing a transom replacement

Diskord,

You really need to read this guys thread cover to cover. His boat is very similar to yours and his repairs are EXACTLY like what you are contemplating. He covers every aspect of the rebuild in Great Detail, with pics, resources, etc... You will get everything you need from this one thread.
He never owned a boat and he did this project. Check it out.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=365820

Good Luck