Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

[ngt]

I am sure most places are honest and straight up with people on their boat motors and I'm guessing most of you folks work on your own boats, but I've just gone through some garbage with a place and was wondering if these things have ever happened to anyone else.

Very new to motors, so any other heads ups about scams or things to look out for would be appreciated!!

I went in to get a tune up/service at a local shop and it came back not working right. I then took it to someone else who went over it and got it back to running.

1st, yeah, I was dumb for not having them run it before picking it up. It was 10 minutes to closing and the guy was rushing me out. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is a problem I've always had I guess.

So the water is not draining out like it should for coolant. The guy blows some carb cleaner and compressed air in there and it's draining fine. Something that shouldn't have been an issue if these guys actually serviced and tunes up the motor.

Next, the guy at the first shop said a seal is leaking possibly and there's water in the oil. He said he drained it and put new oil in it. He said to take it on a long trip to see if it's milky or whatever. I never got to take it out, which leaves no chance for water to get in there really.

When this second guy checked the oil, it was all milky and yellowish. He said his guess was these first people squirted water in there and wanted me to come back where they could do a 10 minute oil change and tell me they had to take it all apart and swap seals.

The thing was stalling out on idle, but when I took it to the 2nd guy, he said for these motors, the idle and throttle screws on the carb were WAY off. He adjusted them and everything was fine. He said there is no way they got this thing "running like a top" with the idle adjusted like this. So possibly another trick to get me back in there and charge me up another $100+ or something.

So, the idle, the water in the oil, and the carb needing work...all things they could have told me needed a few hours of work done if I had taken the motor back, but only could have taken them about 15 minutes to fix. On top of that, these little things proves that they really didn't do anything (including run it with it running well) the first time I took it in.

Has anyone ever dealt with stuff like this? Do these things even seem possible to do? The 2nd guy I took it to said "I have never heard anything good about the place you took it to...never." Wish I heard that before I went there, but better now than going back and learning the hard way again..

Any scams I should look out for as a new to motors and boats guy?

Any stories you have about shop scams or people trying to rip you off where maybe you called them on it??

just annoyed more than anything now.

 

[CN Spots]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

Sounds like the 1st guy didn't do anything but write up a bill. #2 sounds like a keeper.

Your best defense against scams and such at repair shops is education. Know your boat/motor as best you can. If it has an obvious problem, post it over in the repair forums. The answer they give in the forum may be beyond your technical abilities but at least you'll know that if it's, let's say, a carb problem then Sparky probably shouldn't be hammering on your lower end unit.

Sorry you went through such a mess.

 

[vegasphotoman]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

there is the possibility that you have a blown headgasket or another issue...that would stall ya at idle and milk up the oil if a water port is leaking into the oil galleys.... take your boat out for a close to the dock couple runs...or bring a pal with a boat to chase boat ya in case of trouble....then check the oil after running it around....

what motor and outdrive do ya have ? might help and others can chime in on the actual possible problems

Was your boat running OK when you brought it in to the 1rst shop...and you were having it tuned as maintenance? or was it running lousy?
Did you just buy this boat, has it sat for many years...whats the history might help with actually figuring out your problem

and the second guy could be WRONG about the water in the oil "trick" and was badmouthing the other shop so you go to him.....

CARB most carb idle jets are set anywhere from 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 turns open
TIMING most engines are set to 8 degrees BTDC....some are set as high as 12 degrees BTDC
FIRING ORDER, double check that make sure the 1rst shop didnt mess up that when they replaced your plugs....if they did replace your spark plugs

and yeah unfortunately there are ALOT of rip off shops

and...luckily..... there are honest shops....if you find one that is honest/stand by their work and does a good job without greasing up your pretty boats interior......they are prob keepers....

ps there are good shops with the occasional DISHONEST worker too....so if you find a good mechanic at a shop... stick with THAT GUY in-particular....

our local shops wont run it up for ya, they just do the work and have you pick up the boat...Im sure if there was time they would run it for ya....but most would prob do the same thing.... I wonder what the other idiot did that messed up your tune job....



my 2 cents

 

[avenger79]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

Geez, you don't live in Wis do you? your shop #1 sounds like the guy I took my to for service. Yeah he was a gem. Only good thing that came out of mine is I was at the boat show and talking to a sales guy from a boat dealer, it wound up being one of the gem's folks who was just "minding the store" for another dealer. He got to hear first hand what one of his customers thought about their service. I didn't know he was from the gem dealership until we had talked for a while. as I was telling him of my experience at the gem shop he asked odd questions, names, times, etc. that was how I came to find out he worked for the gem shop. when I had an off look I guess at his questions he said well I work there ........doesn't matter I wouldn't go back there to have a canoe serviced let alone something with an engine.

 

[ngt]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

yeah, I guess the #1 problem is owners not being educated on this stuff. I'm learning, slowly but surely, but everyone starts somewhere.

The carb idle jet was set at about 3 1/4 whole turns open. We set it back down to about 2.

I have an 81 Honda 4 stroke.

The motor was going fine before I took it to these guys, besides stalling out on idle. But I could get it running and keep it going if needed. After getting it back form them, it was a lot harder to keep it running. had to rev it up pretty high. After I adjusted it with the 2nd guy, it runs fine. I'm guessing the compressed air and carb cleaner would have fixed it from the beginning.

I don't know how I would know there was a blown head gasket, but that sounds like something major. Would I be able to get the motor going and running like it is now (it's ok, but I think I have the idle a bit high) if a head gasket was blown? If that's a stupid question, sorry. I am new to this.

I have had this boat for 2 summers. The first summer, didn't have an issue and went out about 20 times. This last summer, I took it out once and had this issue, so it had sat for a few months prior. Then another month or so after these guys supposedly serviced and tuned it up.

I'm going to go and get some SAE 90 oil for it today and swap the oil out. Then definitely do those short dock runs. I only have one other friends with a boat and I don't know if we're good enough friends for me to ask him to go follow me around. I have a trolling motor for backup. No getting me around quickly, but hopefully back to the dock if something happens...in an hour or so.

As for the 2nd guy, he had a little tiny shop at a not so well kept up marina. He use to teach children how to work on car and boat motors. He only charged me $20 to look over my whole motor and tweak things for me / teach me a few things...and the money was more for the $30 book he gave me on my motor. He used the line I read a lot here "don't worry about the money, just pass on the help to someone else." We had agreed on $75 on the phone, but that was walking me through taking apart and cleaning out the carb, which we didn't have to do. I offered the $75, and he declined...twice. We did everything in about an hour. He lives on a tiny sail boat at the marina. Seemed like a really good guy. We talked fishing stories and spots etc.. as he was about to take out his son than evening. He also had 3 of my motors taken apart and was using them as parts to rebuild another motor like mine for his kid's boat. I think out of the two places, I'd rather put my money in his pocket than the actual shop I went to the first time.

Also, when I talked to the 2nd guy about where to buy parts, he didn't say "from me!". He told me to go to this lawnmower repair place in the town over that worked on these motors in the back of the shop on spare time.

Overall, I found two good people. It only cost me a couple hundred at the first shop, and some headaches. It just bugs me to think someone got my money for nothing.

 

[ngt]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

Geez, you don't live in Wis do you? your shop #1 sounds like the guy I took my to for service. Yeah he was a gem. Only good thing that came out of mine is I was at the boat show and talking to a sales guy from a boat dealer, it wound up being one of the gem's folks who was just "minding the store" for another dealer. He got to hear first hand what one of his customers thought about their service. I didn't know he was from the gem dealership until we had talked for a while. as I was telling him of my experience at the gem shop he asked odd questions, names, times, etc. that was how I came to find out he worked for the gem shop. when I had an off look I guess at his questions he said well I work there ........doesn't matter I wouldn't go back there to have a canoe serviced let alone something with an engine.

nope, lol. I live in Nor Cal and would love a chance to vent about my experience at the 1st shop to someone who works there or even the owner. I'm sure they'd just hang up on me if I called. When I called them about the motor, they wouldn't even look at it again without charging their hourly rate. So I went looking for something cheaper. I wouldn't go back to this place for anything....not even to stop and ask directions as I might end up yelling.

 

[avenger79]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

yep same ploy the "gem" used. i called him about it not being set up right and right away was that's not our fault for another $100 diag fee plus hourly rate we'll fix it. yada yada

i have saved a few folks around heer from going there though so I guess it's not all bad.

my first trip in cost me $1000

 

[ngt]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

$1000? OUCH! I got out only losing about $200, but I'm guessing it's all my stuff being lower budget that keeps the cost down. 12 foot boat,1981 7.5hp 4 stroke...can't get too deep into the pockets, but I still want to get my moneys worth. Being broke right now, I sure could use that $200 though. I'll talk anyone local into going somewhere else, or at least warn them as best I can. There's a lot more to helping the next guy than just helping them fix things. Like you've done...warning them is big too. I wish someone warned me before I went to this guy.

 

[perchin]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

Here's some solid advice.... Just outside of the town Crystal, MI there is a place called Baker Marine. Well DON'T GO THERE!!!! NOT FOR ANYTHING...COMPLETE CROOKS. Only after I spent $300 on a lawyer to look at my reciepts and send them a letter, did they even consider what they had done.

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

Kinda off the path here.

But I knew a gal that was having driving trouble with her car.
Shop told her 1000 to fix her car. Her dad told her many times to always ask for the old parts when the job is done. So she sent her car in and 1200 dollars later she gets her car back. It drives fine but still has a little issue. She brings it over to me and I look at it. She says they put the old parts in the trunk.

I look at her invoice. Billed her for a clutch replacement. I look in the trunk. Sure enough, pressure plate and clutch plate..... Problem is... Where did they get this clutch? I told her to drive it right back and get her money back...

She said why? I told her you have an automatic transmission. Kinda just looked at me clueless.(She basically knows where to put gas and the key). I then said, you don't have a clutch in your car!
4-5 days later with her father threatening a lawyer. The bill was dropped to around 75 dollars for a sensor replacement.

 

[vegasphotoman]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

Hiya again NGT

ok forget the blown headgasket comment probably.....you got an outboard...AHAH! I know nada much about outboards...thought mebbe you had a I/O type inboard etc

as far as I know though...which is little...Im assuming a 4 stroke outboard is very similar to the car type engines...just alot more aluminum and light weight etc.... could be wrong

anyways...glad to hear you have your issues sorted out and are on teh right track with a decent mechanic! happay boating and WELCOME TO IBOATS!

 

[ngt]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

^^thanks! I wish I had a bigger boat with an inboard. I couldn't pull it with my little car though, lol. Goal by next summer is to get an SUV and a bigger boat. I'd like to get more than 1-2 friends out there with me.


As for the Car story up there, that's crazy! I guess I'm kinda in the same spot as that lady though. "Just didn't know any better, and gave someone the benefit of the doubt.....then got burned"....glad she got her money back.


Also, nice heads up on Baker Marine in Crystal, MI....I'm sure someone on this site lives around there. It would be nice if we could get a sticky somewhere on this site for member recommendations and opinions on their local shops. Maybe with sections divided up by state or something.

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

1st thing to do is start by going here.

http://www.bbb.org/

See if they are listed and see if they have complaints. It's not a complete catch, but it's a start.

 

[PW2]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

I'm always amazed at problems people have when visiting repair shops. Now I have a regular shop where I take stuff to get fixed, but recently I was in Lake Placid, and at 4:30 on a friday afternoon, all of the power windows on my Jeep mysteriously quit working. At first I thought it just a fuse, but when nothing that was controlled by the door panel switches worked I figured it was an electrical problem...
On the internet I found a shop (Hoffman's) that was open till noon on Saturday, called them, and yep they could get it in to look at it at 10 am. Sure enough, they got it in at 10 am, and sure enough, they found a broken ground wire.

They had it fixed by 11:30 am- worked fine, and they charged me $112--mostly for labor to find and fix the problem. I was thrilled at the service.

Generally that is my experience. Most shops are honest and professional.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

As for the 2nd guy, he had a little tiny shop at a not so well kept up marina. He use to teach children how to work on car and boat motors. He only charged me $20 to look over my whole motor and tweak things for me / teach me a few things...and the money was more for the $30 book he gave me on my motor. He used the line I read a lot here "don't worry about the money, just pass on the help to someone else." We had agreed on $75 on the phone, but that was walking me through taking apart and cleaning out the carb, which we didn't have to do. I offered the $75, and he declined...twice. We did everything in about an hour. He lives on a tiny sail boat at the marina. Seemed like a really good guy. We talked fishing stories and spots etc.. as he was about to take out his son than evening. He also had 3 of my motors taken apart and was using them as parts to rebuild another motor like mine for his kid's boat. I think out of the two places, I'd rather put my money in his pocket than the actual shop I went to the first time.

Also, when I talked to the 2nd guy about where to buy parts, he didn't say "from me!". He told me to go to this lawnmower repair place in the town over that worked on these motors in the back of the shop on spare time.

Overall, I found two good people. It only cost me a couple hundred at the first shop, and some headaches. It just bugs me to think someone got my money for nothing.

I just wanted to mention that the 2nd fellow that you went to was a shade tree mechanic. He is not a professional mechanic since he doesn't even sell or buy parts.
I am only mentioning this because as you pointed out, this guy was doing you a favor, and sounds like a good person. He didn't make any money off this deal. If you take your boat to a professional, they have to make money. That means it's going to cost a LOT more.
Maybe the mechanic at the first place was lousy and a cheat. But, since you know absolutely nothing about outboards, how would you know? You very well could have a head gasket or other such leak that could eventually RUIN your motor, as he told you. Yes, some guys are crooks, but I'd think that very few would put water in your oil. They wouldn't stay in business long doing such things.
The original mechanic told you to take your motor out and see if any more water was getting into the oil. I hope you do that, because he could very well be correct. If so, what are you going to think about mechanic #1 then? Will you think he purposefully put a hole in one of your gaskets?

Basically, the 2nd mechanic you've found could very well be one to hang on to, since he's willing to work on motors for little or nothing. He could also be a very good mechanic. But, good mechanics usually have a lot absolutely filled with boats and motors from people eager to get them worked on. They also have to pay for insurance, a building, utilities, tools, etc. Folks are always riding their rumps to get their motor fixed by yesterday. It's so time consuming, such hard work, and such a liability that few good mechanics have the time to work on someone's motor unless they are being well paid---the same as anyone would expect.
Just my opinion,
JBJ

 

[lncoop]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

Generally that is my experience. Most shops are honest and professional.

Most, but not all. I've generally had very good experiences with tradesmen, shops, etc., so I guess the universe thought I was due for a good ripping off. I recently took my 90 horse Merc in for a water pump impeller. He called me three days later to let me know it was done, but they couldn't get it to start and had to replace the solenoid. Hmmm. Wasn't having any starting issues, but I resolved to let it go since I knew the solenoid was a $25 part that couldn't have taken more than fifteen minutes to replace. Four hours later the kid at the counter, who was very nice but very afraid of the mechanic, told me the bill was $378, at which point I lost my resolve to let it go. We finally settled on $250 with the understanding that they would never see EITHER of my Mercs again. Hope it was worth it.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

This is not a criticism, but I cannot understand how anyone can afford boating without being able to fix their own boat. Granted if I bought new stuff, my opinion might be different, but there is just a steady stream of maintenance and problems that need some level of technical expertise.

In the past two weeks I have done two impeller replacements (one on each outboard), fixed the manual recoil starter, and am currently totally rebuilding my jetski (rebuilt crank, new pistons/rings, gaskets, and carb rebuild) due to a front seal failure. This doesn't inlcude the starter replacment on the jetski a month ago and the total rebuild of my carbs on my 90Hp before the season.

If I had to pay for all of that, I would be broke.

But as said earlier, knowledge is power. The 7.5 HP engine is a fairly simple one and a good place to start. Going into the shop with a good idea of what you need will help from getting shafted.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

My young daughter was driving home from Texas in an old Mazda when the battery light came on. She stopped at a shop, which informed her that she needed a new alternator, a new battery, and had to wait till Tuesday (this was friday afternoon) to get it done. It was going to cost $380. She called daddy, and I told her to have them put a charge on the battery, and head down the road, looking for a truck stop. Ten minutes later she called me while driving. (No way the battery had much in it.)

She stopped at the next truck stop and asked the busy mechanic to look at it. He took a quick look, told her it wasn't charging, probably needed an alternator. He didn't have time to work on it, but told her to get something to eat, it would take 30 - 40 minutes to top off the battery for her. I think he accepted 5 dollars for the help.

She got a motel, crashed for the night, and took off at first light. The battery went dead, stranding her about 8 hours later. A young man came along, took a look, discovered the alternator was missing a mounting bolt, and jammed it so the belt tightened up with a tire iron and a bunjee strap. He jumped her off, and she drove it the rest of the way home like that.

The original problem is that it was missing a 2 dollar bolt, that took all of about 5 minutes to install. An honest shop would have fixed that, and charged her about 50 bucks labor and a couple for parts. If they would have asked for less, my daughter would have made them take $50 anyway.

Anyway, I always help if I can, and aparently some of the come back has helped my daughter.

 

[ngt]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

I just wanted to mention that the 2nd fellow that you went to was a shade tree mechanic. He is not a professional mechanic since he doesn't even sell or buy parts.

He had some parts I could have bought, (seal for the exhaust) but he said he wasn't 100% that was the problem and didn't want to sell me something I didn't need. He has a small shop that he fixes stuff for people at that marina, but yeah, not a "real" outboard shop by any means.

I am only mentioning this because as you pointed out, this guy was doing you a favor, and sounds like a good person. He didn't make any money off this deal. If you take your boat to a professional, they have to make money. That means it's going to cost a LOT more.

Of course, and I don't mind paying more if I know something it going to get done right, or at all.

Maybe the mechanic at the first place was lousy and a cheat. But, since you know absolutely nothing about outboards, how would you know? You very well could have a head gasket or other such leak that could eventually RUIN your motor, as he told you. Yes, some guys are crooks, but I'd think that very few would put water in your oil. They wouldn't stay in business long doing such things.
The original mechanic told you to take your motor out and see if any more water was getting into the oil. I hope you do that, because he could very well be correct. If so, what are you going to think about mechanic #1 then? Will you think he purposefully put a hole in one of your gaskets?

If someone tells me my motor "runs like a top" and I get home and it doesn't run. Then someone else says "these settings are off", messes with them, and everything is fine....I'm going with guy #2. Especially if the first guy wants me to come back and spend "a LOT more".

Also, if a head gasket was blown, wouldn't the first guy have told me in an attempt for me to stay there and have them fix it??

Basically, the 2nd mechanic you've found could very well be one to hang on to, since he's willing to work on motors for little or nothing. He could also be a very good mechanic. But, good mechanics usually have a lot absolutely filled with boats and motors from people eager to get them worked on. They also have to pay for insurance, a building, utilities, tools, etc. Folks are always riding their rumps to get their motor fixed by yesterday. It's so time consuming, such hard work, and such a liability that few good mechanics have the time to work on someone's motor unless they are being well paid---the same as anyone would expect.
Just my opinion,
JBJ

I appreciate your opinions, and who knows, you could be right. I hope not, lol, but I guess I don't really know. The 2nd guy was retired, like 70 years old, and was an ex-teacher in an auto class teaching kids to work on car and some boat motors. He retired onto his sail boat and lives out of this little marina. I highly doubt he'd open a real shop even if he had the opportunity. He said it's more about passing along knowledge than making a buck.



EDIT:______________________________________

This is not a criticism, but I cannot understand how anyone can afford boating without being able to fix their own boat. Granted if I bought new stuff, my opinion might be different, but there is just a steady stream of maintenance and problems that need some level of technical expertise.

In the past two weeks I have done two impeller replacements (one on each outboard), fixed the manual recoil starter, and am currently totally rebuilding my jetski (rebuilt crank, new pistons/rings, gaskets, and carb rebuild) due to a front seal failure. This doesn't inlcude the starter replacment on the jetski a month ago and the total rebuild of my carbs on my 90Hp before the season.

If I had to pay for all of that, I would be broke.

But as said earlier, knowledge is power. The 7.5 HP engine is a fairly simple one and a good place to start. Going into the shop with a good idea of what you need will help from getting shafted.

It's cool man, I totally understand. I wish I knew more about this stuff. It was my love for fishing, not boating, that got me to go out and buy my little 12 foot aluminum boat, put a trailer hitch on my infiniti g20, and try my best to get out there and snag some fish. I don't have a ton of money, which is the main reason my boat sat all summer. I'm trying to learn, but everyone starts somewhere. Before I bought this boat. I had been out on a boat maybe 5 times in my life, and 2 of those were cruise ships, lol. I am glad this motor is one of the easier ones to work on, as I am a bit over my head even with this one. Hopefully I'll pick some stuff up and be better off when I eventually upgrade.

I bet at one point, everyone on this site knew as little as I do about motors. They may have been 5 years old, but still

 

[PW2]

Re: Scams to look out for when going to a shop??

Ok, I'll buy that. Most but not all.

If you take it to someone other than a certified mechanic with a reputible shop that's been in business for awhile, you take your chances.

We have only one outboard mechanic in town (oops, We have two now) and he is generally swamped--I get calls all the time to change impellers, gear oil, recoil starters and ropes etc. and if I have time I usually do it. Never had a problem, people get a pretty good deal and a reliable fix, although I won't tackle complex problems.

But I don't think I would take my motor to someone I didn't know that didn't have an established business behind him.