Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

[NapaBavarian]

My larger boat is powered by a 1974 Mercruiser 302 with 351 heads, but the engine came locked up solid, I'm considering aquiring a complete fuel injected 302 or 351 from the junk yard, main concern in money, I can get everything I need for around $250 if I wait till 1/2 off day, and I already have all the marine accessories from the frozen engine, it seems like this would be a similar amount of work and money in the long run as going back to a carb and easier to run once it is installed.

 

[Don S]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Forget it, automotive EFI systems are not usable in boats, and the components are not CG approved for marine use.

But to answer you question, yes someone has probably done it, but it doesn't make it safe or even useable on the water.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Don,
I understand the safety aspect, especially with the addition of fuel retun lines and other parts, but why aren't auto EFI components "useable" in marine enviroments?

Not trying to be a smarta**, just wondering for my own sake.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Don S]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Different timing advance curves and different running requirements, (boats run uphill in first gear at 4000+ rpm for hours on end, cars don't), automotive have catalitic converters and O2 sensors not found in anything but 2010 marine engines because they wouldn't last.

 

[NapaBavarian]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Different timing advance curves and different running requirements, (boats run uphill in first gear at 4000+ rpm for hours on end, cars don't), automotive have catalitic converters and O2 sensors not found in anything but 2010 marine engines because they wouldn't last.

Those sound like fairly easy problems to solve, a cam, have the computer reprogramed to match the cam, what fuel injection components are problematic? Injectors? intake manifold? other sensors? A blanket "it can't be done" can sound a bit like a statement to be ignored, an engine is nothing more than the combination of parts, and all are changable, the same engine may be found in a corvette, a pickup, a boat, a drag car, and turning left in Nascar...

 

[ChrisCraftJohnny]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

The problems may all be solve-able. However this is not the streets and the Coast Guard enforces the laws on the water. So even if you did all these mods it would not be legal.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

PM Mylesm260 or search for some of his posts. He's been successfully running an automotive 4.3L EFI system for several years and is very knowledgeable about the entire system.

 

[Don S]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

45, the OP has a Ford.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Oops - sorry, missed that Don! Guess I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it, I agree with you about the safety aspects. Just saw the EFI stuff and remembered Mylesm260.

 

[Slicktified]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

PCM made a 5.8 Pro Boss GT-40 that had automotive based fuel injection (looks alot like under the hood of my mustang). I would think that parts from that could be used, and mated to a 5.0 lower intake to make your 302 "marine safe" fuel injected.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Yet I saw a pic of a showcar with a 7.4L Mercruiser MPI in it...it's not fair!!

 

[180shabah]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Of course the question that nobody, including the Coast Guard, can/will answer is...

What are the CG regs concerning the instalation of a fuel injected gasoline engine on a boat.

Every reg posted by the CG and available in their publications refer to carb'd engines.

My question is, how can fuel injection violate a reg that doesn't seem to exist????

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Howdy,

In a "nutshell", it IS doable to put an automotive type EFI on a boat.........and of course, Holley has a Marine compliant system you can buy.

If you know what you're doing, you can probably make it "safe" and make it work.

Will it be worth it? Probably not. Will it be "legal" well, you'll have to argue with the ABYC and the USCG to make it "compliant" in their eyes.

They'll probably want you to jump though MANY "hoops".

If you know anything about small aircraft certification, you can liken it to getting an FAA "Field Approval" of a modification to a certificated aircraft airframe or engine.........It's VERY difficult, takes a LONG time, and costs a fortune! AND they (THE FAA) FREQUENTLY deny them after it's all said and done.


If you just blow it all off and do it anyway, you're fine until the boat burns up, the neighbor kid is killed, the insurance company is called and the lawyers get involved,


Then they start asking questions about "Approved" or "Legal" "Modifications" and then they start using words like criminal negligence..... etc......



In a world where someone can be sued for serving alcohol at their house party or a company sued for serving coffee that is "too hot"....... it's not a stretch to assume that someone could be sued for doing major "illegal" modifications to USCG "approved" fuel, electrical, or engine systems on a boat where someone was injured or killed!!




Then is it worth it? maybe not..... Certainly not to me......



Regards,


Rick

 

[NapaBavarian]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

I think we're getting closer! What concerns have been identified with MPI and TPI fuel injection systems? Specifically the fuel injection parts, injectors, fuel system, hoses, wiring, computers, intake manifold, sensors?

I noticed a comment that pre-2010 fuel injected marine engines had no O2 sensor, how did they deal with closed loop operation when warm? A car without a functional O2 sensor tends to run rich.

 

[180shabah]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

I noticed a comment that pre-2010 fuel injected marine engines had no O2 sensor, how did they deal with closed loop operation when warm?

Runs open loop..

Software different, so it never "looks" for the O2 values.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

put some junk together, run it till it blows. I hope I am there and survive to sue, ill own it all.
thats what it comes down to.
that and the auto stuff isnt quite what marine stuff needs.
yes PCM marinized a basterd version of a 4 TBI injector motor that used a malloy dist,a delco map sensor, a ford ECM and a carter pump.
made about 2 years.
ever try to find the parts to fix one?

 

[NapaBavarian]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Hey, why don't ya'll move to the Napa Valley and start a Whinery?

 

[Don S]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

Hey, why don't ya'll move to the Napa Valley and start a Whinery?

Too many crazy people in that area that think they know all about boats and safety.

 

[NapaBavarian]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

that would be why the question was asked, blanket statements and lack of understanding do not make a safe enviroment, those who do not understand engine control systems need not chime in here.

I asked for specific problems, and the productive posts seem to be crowded out by naysayers who know nothing about the question asked.

The statement stands as accurate, a whiner is someone who does not understand something and fears it because they do not understand it.

 

[Don S]

Re: Has anyone converted to fuel injection with automotive parts?

The statement stands as accurate, a whiner is someone who does not understand something and fears it because they do not understand it.

Then stop being a whiner and start learning.