470 mercruiser shift issues

BaysideMarine

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Feb 17, 2005
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Right guys,<br /><br />Trying to resolve a shift issue with a 470 Mercruiser. Here is a copy of an email I just sent to Merc's tech department:<br /><br />Thanks for your speedy reply Steve (and thanks also to Jim),<br /><br />Merc's service is unquestionably exceptional. Keep it up guys (and girls)!!<br /><br />Originally, the port engine (when pulling directly on the lower unit shift cable) could engage forward gear correctly but not reverse. Manual manipulation of the linkage junction (intermed. shift shaft and upper shift shaft) would then engage reverse gear correctly. The starboard engine was correctly selecting forward and reverse around 50% of the time.<br /><br />I swapped the drive unit from the starboard engine to the port engine and noted that the reverse gear problem was still evident.<br /><br />I took measurements from the bell housing face to the outer edge of the aluminium casting on the end of the shift cable. The casting on the port shift cable protruded 2mm further out than that on the starboard housing with the cables in the reverse gear position. It would appear that at some time when the cable has been replaced in the port leg it has not been screwed down hard enough.<br /><br />However, would that 2mm I measured not be a problem if the spool inside the gearcase was not worn (assuming it may be)? I note that the starboard engine can engage both forward and reverse when pulling on the shift cable manually although reverse gear is at the absolute extremity of the cable, whereas forward gear is engaged before the end of the cable travel.<br /><br />I have had a good look at the upper shift shaft in both bell housings and also compared it to the shaft in the 485 I have in pieces on the workshop floor. I found no difference in terms of shaft diameter or flare on the bottom piece, although I am puzzled that you say the tolerance was increased in the bottom bush in later years as this is an 85 model and the 470's in the Bertram are 82 model and the tolerance is a lot tighter in the 85 model 485 (with no sign of corrosion evident). <br /><br />I guess all this is pointing towards a worn spool and a worn intermediate shift shaft perhaps in both lower units? I'd just like to get a good feel for the precise location of the problem before I start heating up and pulling apart lower units (and maybe breaking bearing carriers etc) as obviously this seriously impacts the final costing for the customer (who happens to be a friend). <br /><br />What are your thoughts in relation to the shift issues? <br /><br />Kind Regards,<br /><br />Nicholas Hubbard<br /><br /><br />What do you guys think?<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Nicholas
 

BaysideMarine

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Feb 17, 2005
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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

By the way, its a 1982 Bertram 25 with twin 470 MerCruisers with 1000hrs on the clocks.<br /><br />Cheers
 

Bt Doctur

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Aug 29, 2004
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19,344
Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

Possably a cable trouble. With the drive off can the unit be shifted into the gears.Normally its push-fwd and pull- rev.from the inside end.manually move the shift slide in as far as it will go and compare with the known good one.may be debris inside the slide or the plastic guide tube may have grown abit preventing the slide from going in all the way for reverse.
 

bigbrownbuku

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 17, 2004
Messages
885
Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

don will likely be along to post you the merc way of doing it (no one has the links like don). follow it, it works. there are allowances in the anchor pin placement for worn assemblies.
 

Don S

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Aug 31, 2004
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62,321
Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

Sounds like a worn out shift cable to me. I'm refering to the one between the engine and the drive.<br />It's a common problem and fairly easy to repair (for me anyway, but I do it for a living. Your experience may vary).<br />All it takes is a new cable. Get it replaced and adjusted properly by the Merc service manual and you will be back on the water in no time.<br /><br />Here is a link to the Alpha service manual. These three sections will be the most needed for your repairs.<br />Section 1C Troubleshooting<br />Section 2A Removal and Installation<br />Section 4A Transom Assy Minor diss.<br /><br /> http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/6/6covr3.pdf
 

BaysideMarine

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Feb 17, 2005
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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

Okay Don,<br /><br />Upon inspecting both LU's and comparing to the LU I have from the 485, the intermediate shift shaft on both 470 LU's is sloppy overall. Both 470 LU's in the forward gear position are slightly off angle (slightly starboard rather than in line with the length LU). There is slight play between the intermediate shift shaft and the shift shaft itself, but it is slight although more than the 485 in the workshop, which is quite tight overall.<br /><br />What concerns me is that the starboard LU when operated directly by the LU cable (removed from the shift plate) could easily engage forward gear, but could only engage reverse at the extremity of the cable. The port LU could not obtain reverse at all (forward was fine). I took that to be telling me that the amount of wear on the spool mechanism had created too much travel in the shift shaft.<br /><br />Mercury advised to not rule out the upper shift shaft (62104 I think) and also the shift spool assembly. <br /><br />Does this still sound to you like a worn cable issue and if so then I must assume that these cables stretch over time??<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Nicholas
 

FREDSDOG

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Jan 22, 2002
Messages
22
Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

i had a 79 aquasport with the 470 and had the exact same problem i could get it to work by adjusting the shift cable just for shift not to factory specs changed the cable and all was ok still had a sloppy shift because of the age andmy drive was not able to be opened so i lived with it had a positive shift all i cared about chances are you have a cable issue but also a drive shift issue that are aggravating each other i woulddo the cable cheaper and easier goodluck<br />dino f
 

Bondo

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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

Ayuh,...........<br /><br />Sure Sounds like a Worn Out Cable,......
 

BaysideMarine

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Feb 17, 2005
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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

Hi guys,<br /><br />Don, please explain your reasoning behind a shift cable issue. I have changed shift cables before but the usual problem with shift cables in my experience is they get tight and cause the shift switch to malfunction.<br /><br />Do you have other experience with them? Obviously if the outer casing breaks then you have a problem but are you saying they are prone to stretching?? I have not seen that before. Very interested to hear if you have.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Nicholas
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

look in manual # 6 page 1c-41. its full of the information you seek :) :)
 

BaysideMarine

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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

Thanks for the input but I don't have those manuals. I have older manuals which don't cover the troubleshooting section. Of course I can buy the manuals but I dont really do that much with MerCruisers so its an expense with no longer term value. Also I cannot get them very quickly and we are trying to get the boat fixed by the end of next week at the latest.<br /><br />Can anybody fax or scan and email the relevant pages? (troubleshooting section only should be fine) Or if anyone could briefly summarise the t'shooting section and post here?<br /><br />email is baysidemarine@dodo.com.au fax number is 0011 613 97548217.<br /><br />In the interim I have stripped the gearboxes and the spool assembly is worn in both, but much more so in the port box. I will fit new drive unit cables also but I would still like to hear if anyone has had the same/similar problem or Don's reasoning for going towards cable.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Nicholas
 

rodbolt

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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

cause the cable inner jackets wear out. then the cable gets sloppy. thats why the newest cable wont fit the older jackets. now would be a good time to convert them to aft entry style cables if they are not already.<br /> the inner part of the shift cable is self lubricating nylon and occasionally they wear and allow excess lateral motion.
 

BaysideMarine

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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

Fair enough!<br /><br />Thanks Rodbolt. Its one thing to state an answer but from an analytical problem solving perspective an answer also requires an explanation in order to fully assess the merit of the answer.<br /><br />I appreciate you adding to Don's comments. Without an answer we couldn't evaluate the statement and rule it in or out. Especially since Mercs own technical people made zero mention of shift cable as the potential problem.<br /><br />I have not seen worn out cables in that manner previously. Only tight cables causing shift switch interruption (as previously mentioned).<br /><br />The cables are already the aft entry style. Not sure if that was standard by 1982 or if they have been changed previously. I did a late 70's 5.7 about 6 months ago with the older style forward entry cable which I converted. What was Merc thinking!!!<br /><br />Do you therefore think changing the spools is a wasted exercise? If I can avoid additional cost to my customer (friend) then I will do so. There is certainly play in the spools which would tell me they need replacing but what are your thoughts?<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Nicholas
 

rodbolt

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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

i would suggest purchsing manual #6 and doing the correct procedures. its on page 3b-29. it iedentifies early or late style spools and how to test/adjust them. the manual may be avaible online. or maybe DonS can post it. most service reps are rather clueless i have found.
 

BaysideMarine

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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

If DonS doesn't post then I will see if Mercury here in Melbourne has the manuals on hand (they should have). Thanks again mate and thanks to all.
 

BaysideMarine

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Feb 17, 2005
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Re: 470 mercruiser shift issues

An update guys.<br /><br />All back together as of last weekend and both drives correctly shifting.<br /><br />Replaced the spools (badly worn) and the shift cables also. Changed intermediate shift shaft bushes on one drive but made no difference to level of free-play so did not replace the other side.<br /><br />Thanks all for your assistance.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Nicholas
 
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