110v to 240v

waynerg

Recruit
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Apr 21, 2004
Messages
4
Hi all<br /><br />I have purchased a 2855 Bayliner in the US and am shipping it out to Western Australia. The boat is wired for 110v and has 110v appliances (incl A/C)but we have 240v. Can anyone let me know how I can deal with this issue without the suggestion of completing a rewire.<br /><br />Thanks <br /><br />Wayne
 

mattttt25

Commander
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Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: 110v to 240v

you should be able to leave the boat as is and keep all the appliances. the genset will provide 120v for all your appliances. the only issue is when you are on shore power when it is providing 240v. there has to be a small stepdown transformer available to run btw the shore power and the boat.
 

waynerg

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Apr 21, 2004
Messages
4
Re: 110v to 240v

Thanks mattt. The shorepower is the problem. Any ideas on the equipment you refer to?<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />Wayne
 

mattttt25

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Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: 110v to 240v

you're looking for a stepdown transformer. if i was designing one, i would allow the shore power to be plugged into on side, and another shore power cable running to your boat. i'd search the web hard to see if you can find something. i'd also ask around or call as many large marinas in australlia as you can. they probably have seen them on boats that visit. good luck-
 

neumanns

Lieutenant Commander
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Mar 1, 2003
Messages
1,926
Re: 110v to 240v

From 220 to 110 is just a matter of the correct plug. Any good RV dealer or good marina should carry what you need. If you split the 240 it should give you 120 (via a correct plug) if you do a little further investigation on the appliances you should find that they are capable of running at 120 vs 110.<br /><br />The 240 plug should be a a four wire rig...you are only going to use three of them, If my very limited knowledge of electricity serves my memory.
 

mattttt25

Commander
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Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: 110v to 240v

neumanns is correct when dealing with buildings and homes. not sure about what you would find overseas at a marina (240v single phase or 3 phase?) i did a few searches on the web and found some stories of people traveling the world and using a transformer to get the right voltage.<br /><br />check out traces t-240 transformer. it may just be a stepup, but possibly works both ways.<br /><br />a little more time on the internet, and i'm sure you can find something.
 

18rabbit

Captain
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Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: 110v to 240v

Waynerg – congratulations on your hindsight! :) The view isn’t really that bleak. It’s not that big a deal. You should not need to rewire your boat if you decide to upgrade to 240v appliances. Before doing anything, evaluate your ac system. Switches/relays, circuit brakers, and filaments/elements might need to be replaced; motors and inverters probably do need to be replaced. The difference between 120v and 240v in appliances is often minor.<br /><br />- Wall sockets need to be changed to whatever configuration is common for you.<br />- Circuit brakes may or may not need to be replaced.<br />- Any AC light bulbs? (I don’t have any on my boat).<br />- Appliances will need upgrading or replacing. Probably as simple as replacing motors or internal switches/relays. Check with the appliance manf. BEFORE replacing.<br />- The AC/DC inverter should be reviewed for compatibility with 240v. Probably isn’t. This one could cost you $$$ to replaced.<br /><br />Step-down converters are not cheap, either. Compared with the cost of replacing the inverter, I would be thinking about the minor additional cost to upgrade the existing appliances to 240v and skipping the inconvenience of any 120v on my boat.<br /><br />You might start by asking Bayliner to email or fax you a copy of the AC wiring diagram. From that you can find everything connected to the AC system. It will not be as extensive like the DC is. Also, Bayliner may be able to give you some guidance on what (if anything) needs to be replaced to bring the boat to 240v standards.<br /><br />Good luck!
 

18rabbit

Captain
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Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: 110v to 240v

MY – that’s a 100-watt step-down converter. A 2-cup/2-person rice cooker is 450-watts on 240v. :)
 

neumanns

Lieutenant Commander
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Mar 1, 2003
Messages
1,926
Re: 110v to 240v

Everything on your boat is designed to be opperated at 110v, If you can split the 240v to 120v I think you will be fine. Here's my speculation...All the appliances on boared are designed to be run off a generator, Small generators have a tendancy to surge. They take this into account when sellecting appliances for an application like this. Would I plug sensative electronics designed for 110v into a 120v system...NO. A/C stove etc in an aplication like this are not all that sensative to voltage. If you can indeed split the 240 you should be fine but YOU should investigate this further so You are comfertable with your decision. If you do attempt to run some of the more sensative electronics on this system it would not hurt to get a good surge protector but these are far less expensive than any other options yet presented.
 

marcmccain

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
212
Re: 110v to 240v

Be careful!!! Wiring overseas is not necessarily like what you have in the U.S. You may not be able to split the 220 into 110 as some have suggested. <br /><br />In the USA here is the way your house is probably wired to produce 220 volts at an outlet (for example your water heater or dryer. Your cable to the receptacle has three wires. One is the ground wire and the other two are colored wires for example one black and one blue) each of them is 110 but on seperate phases. So black wire will give you 110v on one phase and the blue wire will also give you 110v with a seperate phase...the two combined will give you 220.<br /><br />Here in spain everything in the house is 220... but is not produced by combining two 110's. Each phase carries 220. An electrical outlet in the living room or a light in the ceiling has 3 wires: one is the ground, one is the white wire which is the neutral, and the other is the colored wire carrying 220v. So you can't split anything.<br /><br />I recommend a step-down transformers and you can find them in any hardware store in Europe. You can get a 2000 watt transformer for about $100 (U.S.) here in Europe. I'm sure it's no different in the Pacific region. America exports bizillions of 110v products to countries that use 220v appliances. Wait until you get to Austraila and buy a transformer there.<br /><br />When you use a stepdown transformer there is only one minor inconvienince... Usually 110v is 60 cycle and 220v is 50 cycle. You can stepdown the volts but you may notice a difference with appliances that operate with a timer (washers, dryers, microwaves). The microwave timer may be set for 2 minutes but the time it operates will be slightly more or less (can't remember which it way). Same is true for washers and dryers... the duration of a wash/dry cycle will be shorter or longer that it would be with 60 cycle. Although the difference exist, you won't notice it.
 

chadh

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Jul 14, 2003
Messages
12
Re: 110v to 240v

Warhorse is exactly right, in the usa we have in houses 240v single phase. 2 120v lines, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. The ground and the neutral are hooked together in the breaker panel, or at the main disconnect. If you have 1 220 line, 1 neutral and the ground you need the transformer to get to 120. Make sure to get a big enough one, 30 amps if you dont have air should be plenty.
 

chadh

Cadet
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
12
Re: 110v to 240v

Warhorse is exactly right, in the usa we have in houses 240v single phase. 2 120v lines, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. The ground and the neutral are hooked together in the breaker panel, or at the main disconnect. If you have 1 220 line, 1 neutral and the ground you need the transformer to get to 120. Make sure to get a big enough one, 30 amps if you dont have air should be plenty.
 

cp

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Messages
367
Re: 110v to 240v

There are TWO problems to consider when using anything electrical from the USA in Australia.<br /><br />One, the different standard voltages, is simply overcome by using a step down transformer as many of the wise folks on this forum have already said (a 2 to 1 step down transformer will give 120 volts from the Aussie 240 volts; for all real intents and purposes 120 is the same as 110). As many have already pointed out, size the VA rating of the transformer to support the loads that will be run. Add up the amps required for all the appliances and multiply by 120 to get the VA rating. That takes care of the 240 vs. 110/120 volt problem.<br /><br />The other problem is that standard power in the land of Oz is 50 Hz, not the 60 Hz used in the USA. This will cause clocks and other synchronous motor devices to run slow. The lower frequency will also result in less impedance hence higher current draw. Check appliances to see if they're rated for 50/60 Hz. If not, be careful; lower impedance and slower turning motors make for more heat which is not good, and in the extreme could result in a fire. Be sure you know what you are doing before connecting up to the 50 Hz power. There is no easy solution to the frequency problem; there are frequency converters available, but they are real expensive.
 

marcmccain

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jan 25, 2002
Messages
212
Re: 110v to 240v

I just reread you post... <br /><br />Firstly, after 30 years in the US Air Force I've hauled U.S. 120v appliances around the world several times over. No problems using a stepdown transformer for any household appliance as long as the xformer is large enough to handle the appliance. And a 2000 watt xformer will handle full sized refrigerators and anything less.<br /><br />Secondly, you could pull out your appliances and replace with 220v appliances and connect into the power source at the dock. Only thing you would have to do is replace the electrical receptacles that you plug your appliances into.... or simply buy inline adapters to adapt your 220 plugs to fit into the 110 outlets.<br /><br />You don't need to replace the wiring. When you use 110v the housing code in the U.S. requires 12 guage wire. Overseas, folks use 220 which requires less amperage which results in houses being wired with a smaller gage wire (14 and sometimes 16). So.... the wiring in your boat will easily handle the 220v draw should you replace the appliances.<br /><br />Piece of cake... or as they say in Spain "pan comida"
 

neumanns

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
1,926
Re: 110v to 240v

And there ya have it, I always wondered if 240 was wired like our 220. Guess not huh. Sounds like if you want to be able to continue to run things off your generator also you are pretty much limited to a step down transformer large enoufgh to handel the whole boat at the piont of entery. On a side note...What did it cost to ship that rig over there?<br /><br />What a site...Where else are you gonna set down with guys from three diffrent continents to help a fellow boater. I for one sure found this interesting, and definatly learned something. Cool :cool:
 

waynerg

Recruit
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
4
Re: 110v to 240v

Thanks all, you have been very informative. The boat does have an AC so it looks to me I will best of by buying a step down transformer that has the capacity to run everything. It becomes a bit to expensive to replace all the appliances.<br /><br />pchonda - Having next to no electrical understanding, what do you mean by VA rating? As I'm still awiating delivery, and can't check, what is the frequency likely to be for the AC and a 110v/12v Norcold fridge? These would be the only two motors that would concern me with regard to heat generation.<br /><br />nuemanns - Cost me about US$12,000 shipping it on a flat rack.
 

cp

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 1, 2004
Messages
367
Re: 110v to 240v

VA stands for Volt-Ampere; KVA stands for Kilo Volt-Ampere. These are the standard units for rating transformers. Transformers are not rated in watts because a watt (a unit of power) is dependent on the power factor of the load. Power factor is dependent on whether a load is inductive or capacitive, and to what extent. VA is independent of the power factor. When you buy a transformer you will have to specify the size you want in terms of VA or KVA.<br /><br />To determine the VA (or KVA) rating of the transformer that you will need to step down the Aussie 240 volts to the 120 volts you want, simply add up all the ampere ratings for the appliances you intend to run, then multiply by 120 (the voltage); divide by 1000 if you want to use KVA. For example, if your A/C draws 20 amps, and your fridge draws 10 amps you would need a (10+20)x120=3600 VA or 3.6 KVA transformer. And specify that the transformer you buy is to be used on a 50 Hz system.<br /><br />Regarding the use of appliances designed for 60 Hz frequency on 50 Hz frequency, you should be aware that all synchronous motors will run slower. Worse though is that appliances designed to run on 60 Hz will present less impedance to 50 Hz, hence more amperage will flow, resulting in more heat being generated. This will shorten the life of the device's insulation and you will have premature failure or in the worst case, possibly a fire. Motors that are capacitive start may not start, or will do so at reduced torque thus generating more heat once again. A compressor motor may run slower, with less torque, generating more heat, resulting in a shortened lifespan along with less cooling ability during that shorter lifespan. Other devices besides motors will also be affected, e.g. if the frequency of microwaves generated for cooking in an oven are related to the input frequency, then you will have less heating and longer cooking times. You should check to see if the nameplate on your appliances shows a 50/60 Hz rating (you can also find the amps rating on that nameplate).<br /><br />One worry free mode of operation would be to only run stuff rated for 50/60 Hz off of shore power. Run the stuff rated for 60 Hz only off of your genset. Hope this helps. Good luck.
 
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