Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Thanks rodbolt - all good info. - if I was going to really seriously consider it, I would definitely get it surveyed. The other thing I was thinking if I went withthis boat was pulling my 305 out of the yarcraft and just keeping it stored, then if the engine blew it'd just be labor cost in swaping the engines, but I'm def. no mechanic, so I don't know if this is even feasible. The 305 still has points, but it runs great and only has 500 hrs on it. I checked out the 72 series, and it looks like one of those runs about $2K or so - is this right? The other boat that I was looking at is this one: http://www.mcmillanmarine.com/marina/includes/products/products.asp?pid=26491&bhcp=1 Anyone have any thoughts, either way, about this listing? Its a little smaller than I was looking for, but is this generally a good brand/set-up? thanks!

mercrewser · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Penn Yans are a dime a dozen in Jersey. I see them all the time. Most of the ones for sale have rot problems. You could EASILY find a running Penn Yan in Jersey for a Grand. Hope you like rooster tails! I saw a twin engine PY once I couldnt keep up with. Really fast, almost surprisingly so. I'd buy one, if the price was right. (5k is not right) There is one on ebay, check it out.

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Thanks for the info. mercrewser! I'm going to show my ignorance (again) and ask what a rooster tail is. I only know them as a type of fishing lure... I don't know where everyone's getting the 5K from, I said he'd take closer to 4K, and this includes the new canvas and fishing gear. I've seen PY's on-line for less too, but they're bare and I'd be buying from someone that I had no idea as to the history on, whereas my mechanic's serviced/maintained this boat every year. I'd def. have the rot issue checked by a surveyor though, no matter which boat I buy - thanks for the advice!

Weirdwalt · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

================================================= It's 10 degrees here now, so it's tough to ask him to start it up, but if I got serious about buying, he would. He's asking 5K for it, but I can probably pick it up for closer to 4K, and my ================================================= That's where we got it. From your original post. Rodbolt makes an interesting point, but I seriously doubt he'd pay 5K (ok, 4K) for one. Not to belittle you or anything, but you show a serious lack of knowledge of boats in general. This lack of knowledge sets you up to get ripped off by someone who will pick up on that. Of course, no one is born knowing everything, none of us were. I can say you have done a very smart thing by coming here and asking. We are always here, so let us know what happens and if you have any other boats you're looking at please come on back we're always happy to make fun - uh I mean help out. The Wellcraft looks nice, the trailer is kinda rough and the handle appears to be missing from the jack. NADA shows that boat at low retail $8500 and high retail at $10,045. NADA is always way optimistic so you should figure at least 2K lower than low retail. Dead of winter is a good time to offer lowball, all they can do is say no. Those salespeople want to sell boats now, not next summer. So if it were me and the Wellcraft checked out good mechanical and hull wise, I'd offer 6K and when they say 'you've got to be kidding' just hand them my card and say 'Call me if you change your mind' and walk away. Trust me, they don't have folks waiting in line to buy right now. Even if they do sell it, you will find another one. Okay so you wait a week and then wander back in and go start looking over the boat again all casual like. Soon the salesperson recognizes you and realizes you are a serious buyer. Start a little idle conversation and soon you offer $6500, or $4500 depending on if the saleperson is pissing you off. Some of those people should not be in sales, know what I mean? Anyway, DO NOT take the salespersons word for ANYTHING. Assume everything they say is a lie. You would not believe the things that come out of salespersons mouths nor the things they type onto finance papers. There are lots of salespeople in the business that literally know nothing about boats. Remember, YOU have the upper hand here, not them. They want to sell boats and you have many others to choose from. Drop the names of other salespeople from other dealerships. Say "I was looking at a (insert brand here) over at Ben Dover's down the street and they're asking 7K for that one and it's a 99! So why you dudes so high on price here?" Keep in mind they will try to baffle you with BS but you can gain the upper hand by doing it to them first. 'Course there's always the old grizzled veteran like George over at Sterling in Denver who can't be ****ted since you just can't **** an old ****ter. But I digress. Look at lots of boats, take notes and ask questions and soon you'll be BS'n like a pro.

Bondo · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

I don't know where everyone's getting the 5K from, I said he'd take closer to 4K, and this includes the new canvas and fishing gear....... 3. it's got over $1500 worth of good gear, plus about $800-$1K in a brand new cover (which I don't think he would have had made if it had major mechanical problems, but then again, you never know!

You're Skewing Your Own #s,....... That's $1500.00,+ $1000.00 REPLACEMENT Costs......... It's on the boat,.. It's Not New anymore...... It's Used Equipment,........ That makes it a $1000.00 Value, At Best............ The Mona B Looks like a real nice boat...... At Least it's got a Driveline that's Reasonably Easy to get Parts for,+ Have Serviced.........

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Thanks Walt (I think..) Yes, I definitely don't know much about buying boats, which is why I'm here, and I appreciate all the assistance from everyone. I'll def. re-post with what I ulimately end up with - just be gentle! Mercrewser, I did see this boat, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987...ryZ63725QQssPageNameZWD6VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem , but it seems a bit pricey for not having a trailer - I'd have to buy one, but otherwise it looks ok. Thanks

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Bondo, I'm not trying to skew the numbers or mislead anyone - I'm sorry if it looks that way or it that's the end result. Thanks for checking out and giving some input on the Mona B for me. Do you think that's priced about right? I'm kinda leary that there isn't much said about the state of the engine/hours, and the price looks a bit low. Guess there's only one way to find out - pick up the phone! thanks.

Weirdwalt · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

I edited my post above added some buying help.

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

thanks walt.

Bondo · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Bondo, I'm not trying to skew the numbers or mislead anyone - I'm sorry if it looks that way or it that's the end result.

I'm Not saying that you're trying to Mislead Anybody,............. Besides YourSelf..............

You're applying the Full Retail Value to these "Extras"........ Look at the Real Value,.... Not the Replacement Costs,...... These are 2 Very Different #s....... I'm being the "Devil's Advocate" here........... If I point to Enough Holes in Your Formula,........ Maybe You'll See them Too.............. BTW,....... I'm Sorry you don't particularly care for My Blunt, To the Point Style,..... But, It's ME.............

Cptkid570 · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

goinhungry -- A few things I like about the Wellcraft: 1. As stated before, it has a more common engine/outdrive setup. Easy to find parts and mechanics to work on it 2. I like that it has the walkaround cabin 3. Newer 4. (this is a big one) -- you mentioned that in a few years your kids would want a different style of boat. Well, if you got the Wellcraft, the wellcraft looks like it would be pretty versitile -- fishing, skiing, joy riding, etc. So, you wouldn't grow out of the boat and would want the same boat for when your kids get older. 5. You mentioned that you have a 305 chevy engine. This one has a 350 chevy engine. So, if you had to, you could swap engines (except you'd get less horsepower) Only downside is the price. But, as walt said in his post. It's the dead of winter right now. No better time to negotiate. I'm sure the sales guy would like a better commission check for christmas ;-) Keep us posted.

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Bondo, thanks - I always appreciate blunt, I just also appreciate a little explanation too. I have no problem with someone shooting down an idea, just tell me why,that's all. I think that's how we all learn. I do understand that retail value isn't the same as replacement value. It comes with 4 cannon digi-trolls (3yrs old, with extended booms on all, 2 swivel bases for each, ball holders, all in great shape), aluminum rocket launcher, 3 SS 4-rod holders, 7'x 3" thick teak mounting board, 2 outriggers, 2 big john planer board masts/reels, etc... The list just keeps going - that's why i thought I was ballparking it about right on those items, even though they aren't new. I wasn't trying to mislead, and I didn't want to list an exhaustive equip. list, I just wanted everyone to know that it did come with some good extras that should be considered when weighing the value, but I def. see your point Bondo and I'm def. not looking to buy a boat just for "parts". The guy's retired and is moving down to FL, so he doesn't need deepwater trolling gear where he's going, and doesn't want to maintain a boat in saltwater.

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Guys- I called on the Wellcraft. He said that there's no hourmeter on it, and it was just shrunk wrap, and he didn't take the boat in, someone else did who isn't there today, but he said they're really anxious to move boats this time of year, and he'd take 8300 for it. He said he'd about break even, since they're into the owner 8100 and they just shrink wrapped it, but he thought it was an acceptable price. Guess I shouldve chimed back with the 6500 offer walt, but I was really more interested in info than price. If it had a blown engine, or something like that, than I wouldn't be interested much, no matter what the price was. He said it was a Merc. 5.7 350 block, and they would store it over the winter and deliver in the spring free, along with a guarantee that it runs well, otherwise I could return it (sure, sure....). What are your gut reactions on this one (other than when I call back offer $6500

) thanks!

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Cpt - thanks for the advice.

Weirdwalt · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Offer 7K. Make it contingent on an acceptable survey which you will have to pay for, and a satisfactory test drive. Remember my previous post "Assume anything they say is a lie!" He's lying and he knows it. No way are they into that boat for 8100

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Walt- thanks, I agree that he wouldn't just drop his bottom-line lowest price on me like that, but if he says 7's too low, what would you think would be an acceptable middle ground, obviously all being contingent on the survey and test drive.. Thanks.

Weirdwalt · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

I assume you are in NY. Looking up Wellcraft Coastals in your area on Boattraderonline.com I found no Coastals. So I looked all over the US and found them ranging from 13,500 to 6900. http://www.boattraderonline.com/adsearch/boatsearchprocess.html So I guess if you get it for 6500 thats a good deal. 7k is probably acceptable. 7500 seems like a good price too. So try the walk away tactic at 6900 and work from there, don't go any higher than 7500. Make an offer, walk away and go look at some more boats. After all it's kinda fun to poke around boats on showroom floors. Heck I do it just to drive salesguys crazy. Maybe you can wait till a boat show and then you'll have buttloads of starving dealers around and you can ask them about their used boat inventory. Keep in mind the boats advertised in Boat Trader for 13,500, 12K etc, most likely have the owners "upside down" on them meaning they owe more than the boat is worth and they are trying to get the financing amount out of it and therefore the price has nothing to do with how much it's actually worth.

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

Thanks walt. That's greatinfo. and help, and I appreciate your search. I can't imagine that you would ever intentionally drive a salesman crazy!

Bondo, given your location, I would assume you've got some knowledge on this point - would you say this is a good Ontario boat? A few times this year we couldn't go out with the yarcraft when there were 4"'s cause I was nervious about it being an open bow, and although it was a 2 hr wasted trip, I always play it safe rather than take risks. Actually, it wasn't wasted, we had a fun time catching perch in sodus bay, so I can't complain... Is there anything on this type of engine that is more weak, prone to breakdowns, anthing I can expect of it generally, etc? (other than what I would typically expect with any other engine, of course...) I know you guys said its easier to find mechanics and parts for thus system, but it is it a good, solid dependable one? Any general thoughts/considerations greatly appreciated...thanks

Bondo · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

I take it We're talking about the "Mona B:, Now,........ Ayuh,... I spend All My free time on Lake Ontario,..... She's a Big Enough lake so that "If the Sun Shines,.. The Wind Will Blow on Lake Ontario"....... Being on the extreme Northeast corner of the lake,+ prevailing winds are from the Southwest,...... The Wind Always seems to be Blowing....

With the "Tin Boat" I've been running,.. I have to run out to the fishing grounds Early in the am.,.. Or Don't Go...... Once the swells get to about a Foot,... I'm limited to Trolling Speeds,.. Or Get Beat to Death....... The Mona B should handle the Chop in a Real Good Fashion,.... It appears to have a Nice Deep V,... The Power,...... The SBC has been Powering America since 1955....... In My mind,.. There Is No Better..... Talk about a "Proven" track record........ And,.... The Alpha Drive is probably the Most Common drive in the World,......Probably More of them built than ANY other drive....... I Think Mona B would be Miles Ahead of that Tunnel Drive,..........

Is there anything on this type of engine that breaksdown more typically,

There are Way More SBC/Alphas that are Destroyed by Freezing,+/or Neglect,...... Than have Ever been Worn Out................

goinhungry · Dec 9, 2005

Re: Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

thanks a lot bondo - that's a ton of great / useful info.

Advice re buying Penn Yan Inboard...

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