P/S squeal

[72GT160]

I have been having issues with this noise thing. First, had a chirp that i was having real issues figuring out. Aligned it within 1-3mm. finally figured out the crank pulley for PS is smaller diameter than WP pulley so, get a belt to run just from WP to PS. Chirp stopped, but now i have a squeal that starts about 3500rpm and is constant. Thinking thinking its the pump. But, unless they are run dry they are pretty reliable, so i don't know if i want to spend $150+ on a pump and have that not be the problem. But, i don't know what else it could be? Sanded pulleys; new, quality Gates belt, Aligned. Anyone heard of this? Looking for any insight.

 

[tpenfield]

Why would it matter that the PS pulley is smaller than the water pump pulley :noidea:

 

[79_banshee]

Is there a belt tensioner. Have you checked all other pulleys for bearing wear. PS fuild level. I had an old 98 gm that would chrip as it shifted at high rpms and always thought it was the ps but think it may have been the belt tensioner. Never did figure that one out cause it was only at 4500-5000 rpm while shifting

 

[achris]

I have been having issues with this noise thing. First, had a chirp that i was having real issues figuring out. Aligned it within 1-3mm. finally figured out the crank pulley for PS is smaller diameter than WP pulley so, get a belt to run just from WP to PS. Chirp stopped, but now i have a squeal that starts about 3500rpm and is constant. Thinking thinking its the pump. But, unless they are run dry they are pretty reliable, so i don't know if i want to spend $150+ on a pump and have that not be the problem. But, i don't know what else it could be? Sanded pulleys; new, quality Gates belt, Aligned. Anyone heard of this? Looking for any insight.

I've always found when I'm working on these ride-on tractors that it's best to have them running with all the settings at base.

My point? What are YOU working on? (make, model, serial number)

Chris.........

 

[72GT160]

Chris, it's a cobbled together unit. its a 85 searay sundancer 260, has a 74 Chris craft 350ci (supposedly a CC quoted 350hp engine, highly doubt that) with 85 V-belt accessories. No serial number known for the accessory part. The p/s and alt. are on port side of motor. P/s being on top. These belts run 3 points of contact; crank, WP, p/s (and/or alt.). Crank and WP pulleys need to have same diameter on EACH pulley. Mine has 2 sizes on crank. Smaller outside one running the p/s. Alternator runs the larger portion on the crank. Basicly the crank and WP run at the same speed. So, running smaller pulley makes the belt skip a beat on every revolution, making the chirp... After realizing this I purchased a belt to go from p/s to WP, could not route around crank. This is temporary till I find correct sized extension pulley for crank. So, now I have the loud squeal at 3500rpm. It's aligned, new belt and pulleys are not fubar'ed.

 

[achris]

Neither Searay not Chris Carft made engines, ever. The engine will be either a Mercruiser or a Volvo (who actually don't make engines either :facepalm: But use GM base engines and add their 'specialised' bits, and marine rated fuel and electrical systems).....

Looks like you have a 1974 5.7 litre (350cu in) engine. The 350s of that era were 250hp. Does it have points or electronic ignition?

The squeal will be because you are trying to drive the PS off the WP pulley. Not designed to work that way. And I have seen many V8 setups with the belt arrangement with a smaller pulley driving the PS pump. The PS belt should be a direct drive from the smaller pulley on the crank, not routed onto the WP pulley. The PS pump is on adjustment brackets to allow for the removal and tensioning of the belt. Get the right belt on the PS pump and your problems will be fixed.

Chris...........

 

[72GT160]

Chris, thanks for the reply. I understand these manufacturers don't make the engines, yet everywhere you go to get parts all guys know is to lookup by application or serial number. So, when you asked for make, model and serial number, i said to myself, "here we go again!"

The block came out of a 74 CC XK19, which they claim its the "corvette" motor of the time, (which i do have serial number for) with 350HP stickers all over

. I get it, I know GM V8's and know you can't get that kind of power of that era with those heads and hydraulic lifters,just not possible. No points. Delco EST Distributor and all secondary replace new last season. Just checked timing too and it's correct.

Back to the issue at hand. This is a 3 groove pulley system. Crank and wp pulleys are too close to fit belt from crank to ps. ps sits up high as you know and wp pulley gets in the way. That was my first effort. And i get that wp to ps belt is not correct way as puts undue stress on wp. But, theoretically wp to ps should work without squeal.

Now, after looking at pic, maybe i can remove the 2 outer pulleys as it looks like the 3rd is seperate and fit new belt crank to ps.

 

[72GT160]

Pulled off wp pulley, it's one piece. So, back to square one...

 

[achris]

Your PS pump is mounted in the wrong place. It should be down very low, lower than the crank pulley. Looks like someone 'modified' it. :facepalm:
It may be possible for you to modify the PS pump mounting so it sits 'one groove' further aft, thus being about to use the middle grooves on the crank and WP to drive the PS. They are all the same size, so will run together properly.

Yes, in therory the PS should be able to be driven directly off the WP pulley. But as the engine speed increases the load created by the WP and the PS will make the crank/WP belt slip....

Chris.......

 

[72GT160]

I seem to have entered the Twilight Zone. What are you talking about man!? PS lower than crank??? That's just flat wrong. Nothing has been "modified" to the power steering bracket. These are the brackets from the 305 that came with the boat in 85. And I have yet to see a ps bracket of this vintage placed where the alternator is or lower than the crank. I'll figure it out on my own. Thanks.

 

[wahlejim]

I have a 305 from 1983 on my boat, the PS is definitely lower than the crank! it is the lowest pulley out of the bunch. The alternator is elevated above the PS. Take a picture of the setup with orientation of where the camera is. And show some respect for the more senior members on this board. achris has to be one of the most knowledgeable boat guys I have ever come across and has helped hundreds if not thousands of members with their problems and his videos, all for the steep price of $0. He could probably rebuild your entire setup without a manual, so you may want to listen to him if you want your problem fixed and treat him with a little respect.

 

[achris]

Here's a picture of an engine of that era. This one has an engine mounted sea water pump, but the ps pump is clearly visible on the port side of the engine well below the alternator.

And here's another.

 

[79_banshee]

Wow good call Chris.

 

[achris]

What I think we need is a more complete history behind this problem. Without knowing any more, I'd say it's someones' attempt at making 1 engine from 2 engines, without understanding the differences properly.

Chris.......

Edit: Re-reading all the information again, I see the base engine (and I suspect the crank pulleys with it) are from the 1974 engine, but the accessories are from the 1985. There's the problem. The crank pulley on the 1974 engines had 2 grooves with another, smaller, pulley bolted up to it. The crank pulley from a 1985 engine is a 2 groove pulley with another pulley of the same size added. The simple solution here might be to change the small crank pulley for one of the same size, a Mercruiser -90841. But as the last V belt used on these engines was 20 years ago, all those pulleys are NLA (No Longer Available) from Mercruiser. You may need to resort to fleabay.... Try these numbers:- 90841, -90841A1, -90081A1. The first 2 replace the single pulley on the front of the 2 groove pulley, the last is a 3 groove pulley that will replace both your current crank pulleys.

 

[72GT160]

I have a 305 from 1983 on my boat, the PS is definitely lower than the crank! it is the lowest pulley out of the bunch. The alternator is elevated above the PS. Take a picture of the setup with orientation of where the camera is. And show some respect for the more senior members on this board. achris has to be one of the most knowledgeable boat guys I have ever come across and has helped hundreds if not thousands of members with their problems and his videos, all for the steep price of $0. He could probably rebuild your entire setup without a manual, so you may want to listen to him if you want your problem fixed and treat him with a little respect.

Chris's first post to me was nothing but sarcasm. His second post was a forum shaming of some sorts and an elementary, condesending explaination that "The PS pump is on adjustment brackets to allow for the removal and tensioning of the belt". (REALLY? Golly gee, didn't know that. do share more) AND tops it off with "Get the right belt on the PS pump and your problems will be fixed". (That comment is a clear indication that the very first post was not read clearly) THEN to be told "pump is mounted in the wrong place... Looks like someone 'modified' it.".... Where is the respect there WAHLEJIM? What am i supposed to do with comments like that? It just may look to Chris that someone "modified it". But, that's not true and doesn't help i, or anyone in the future looking up solutions to "PS Squeal". It's a rhetorical question, no need to reply.

 

[72GT160]

Chris, This is in a 1985 SeaRay Sundancer 260. That front accessory pic you posted will not work in this boat. As you should know, if it was the PS would be through the hull in the water. There is not that much room in the bilge. A simple google image search for 1985 Mercruiser 260 turn this pic up and is what my configuration is. Idk if this is an 85, just looks like mine.

 

[72GT160]

Edit: Try these numbers:- 90841, -90841A1, -90081A1. The first 2 replace the single pulley on the front of the 2 groove pulley, the last is a 3 groove pulley that will replace both your current crank pulleys.

Now, that's something i can work with. Thank you.

 

[achris]

72GT160 PM.

 

[achris]

Chris's first post to me was nothing but sarcasm. ....

I work (unpaid) behind the computer for an internet boating store.
Sometimes I'm called a genius, sometimes I'm called lots more.
I'm just a simple mechanic, but when a job goes sick.
The members come to me and ask "What makes this [censored] thing tick ?"
I'm supposed to know the numbers of valves and bolts and gears;
on every product that been made for more than fourty years.
Mind reader and magician, and handyman as well.
I'm supposed to be Edison plus Alexander Bell.
But life would be a pleasure and I'd smile from ear to ear,
if people just would tell me the MAKE, MODEL AND YEAR!

 

[79_banshee]

72gt160 maybe send Chris a pic of your engine in your boat if possible it might help him diagnose your problem a little better. If the boat is not at your home then I guess this don't really help