Thinking about upgrading to a bowrider

[SkaterRace]

I currently have a 1977 Crestliner Crusader 550 with an 85 hp merc on it. I am thinking of selling it and using that towards a 17-19 ft bowrider. The first one I have found that is looking good is a 1995 Sea Ray 175 with 140 hp. I am open to suggestions as for which ones I should look at, I like the newer look not the old wooden interior that by now has faded and could use work. My price range is $5-7.5k CAD ($3.7-5.6k USD) I know what to expect in the price range so not looking for amazing but practically anything is an upgrade, comparatively.

 

[QBhoy]

The fact you are in Canada, I'd be looking for a good campion. Great solid and quality boats.
Don't know what you could get for your price range (not on the same continent), but you won't go far wrong with a campion ??

 

[SkaterRace]

The fact you are in Canada, I'd be looking for a good campion. Great solid and quality boats.
Don't know what you could get for your price range (not on the same continent), but you won't go far wrong with a campion ??

I have not seen many of those around and I just checked the two main sites I use to shop for boats and only 1 that was way out of my price range ($28.5k to be exact). I will keep an eye out for them though.

 

[jbcurt00]

Look at everyone in your price range.

IMO, brand wont matter nearly as mich as maintenance and condition.

Look thru the resto topics. The 3.5-6K boats are the most often jackpots for unsuspecting buyers, and not good jackpots.

 

[SkaterRace]

Look at everyone in your price range.

IMO, brand wont matter nearly as mich as maintenance and condition.

Look thru the resto topics. The 3.5-6K boats are the most often jackpots for unsuspecting buyers, and not good jackpots.

That is the price range so yes there are lots of crappy boats but if I am careful I can hopefully avoid that. I have gotten bad boats before and while they were not perfect they worked for a while till I sold them off to buy better.

Reason I was curious about brand and model is handling and I know some brand/models have no wood in them and figured someone might mention one of them.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I'm guessing you won't be in the price range for wood-free boats at less than $7K CDN. You might get lucky and find a well-cared-for boat in that range, though..l

 

[jimmbo]

I used to have a 78 Crestliner Crusader 550 bowrider . Still one of my favourite boats.

You appear to be looking at boats that are getting up there in years. Rotted floors, stringers, and transoms are common. Wood-free isn't all it is cracked up to be either.
Where in the Great White North are you?

 

[ezmobee]

The first one I have found that is looking good is a 1995 Sea Ray 175 with 140 hp.

My uncle had that exact boat from new. It performed well with the 3.0 but it was quite small and real low-end in quality. Even a 185 would be a substantial step up.

 

[SkaterRace]

I used to have a 78 Crestliner Crusader 550 bowrider . Still one of my favourite boats.

You appear to be looking at boats that are getting up there in years. Rotted floors, stringers, and transoms are common. Wood-free isn't all it is cracked up to be either.
Where in the Great White North are you?

There is nothing wrong with my boat per say but more of a, I have wanted a bowrider for years and every year I keep looking for the right boat to get. Have yet to find one in 4 years. I am on Ontario in an area where you can't go 25 miles without finding a lake so there are a ton of boats around just none that are in okay ish condition and meet my requirements
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[wrvond]

The smaller Sea Rays are problematic, at best. Wood rot is very common.
Too bad you aren't closer to me, I have a 2002 Tahoe Q3 I am considering selling in the spring.
Though people seem to think their used boats are very valuable, I don't plan on asking more than $5k USD for mine and it's in pretty darn good shape.

 

[SkaterRace]

The smaller Sea Rays are problematic, at best. Wood rot is very common.
Too bad you aren't closer to me, I have a 2002 Tahoe Q3 I am considering selling in the spring.
Though people seem to think their used boats are very valuable, I don't plan on asking more than $5k USD for mine and it's in pretty darn good shape.

Thanks and where are you located? Might be a worth while drive.

 

[Rookster]

That makes for two of us interested! I'm in Ontario looking for a boat as well...you won't find wood-free in that category. I've looked. Is that Tahoe wood-free? I've resorted to an expectation of at least Marine Grade XL Ply and hopefully fiberglass encased stringers. From the literal 100s of hours I've spent researching boats and going out to look at a few, here's what I've found, which are most commonly available available on the market, for bow riders:

Exotic brands: Formula
Top-level brands: Cobalt, Monterey, Regal, Campion
Mid-level brands: Chaparral, Crownline, Four Winns, Sea Ray
Lower-level brands: Tahoe, Maxum, Stingray
Budget brands: Bayliner, Rinker, Tempest

That said, all of the above can shuffle fast depending on how they are maintained. Even so, brand DOES matter, IMHO. Here's why - under equal levels of maintenance or lack thereof, better brands will stand up better because upholstery doesn't crack as easy, gel coat doesn't fade as easy, fiberglass won't stress crack as easy, wood will be better treated for marine use and can last as long as fiberglass, throttle cables won't seize up or rust as easy, more durable fittings that don't break as easy (handles, etc.), electronics that last longer...this "research-based" (because I'm a rookie) list goes on and on. But yes, I'd consider anything from lower tier upwards, and even some budget tier depending on maintenance and specific models with better quality history. The opposite holds true for some mid and top level brands.

 

[jkust]

That makes for two of us interested! I'm in Ontario looking for a boat as well...you won't find wood-free in that category. I've looked. Is that Tahoe wood-free? I've resorted to an expectation of at least Marine Grade XL Ply and hopefully fiberglass encased stringers. From the literal 100s of hours I've spent researching boats and going out to look at a few, here's what I've found, which are most commonly available available on the market, for bow riders:

Exotic brands: Formula
Top-level brands: Cobalt, Monterey, Regal, Campion
Mid-level brands: Chaparral, Crownline, Four Winns, Sea Ray
Lower-level brands: Tahoe, Maxum, Stingray
Budget brands: Bayliner, Rinker, Tempest

That said, all of the above can shuffle fast depending on how they are maintained. Even so, brand DOES matter, IMHO. Here's why - under equal levels of maintenance or lack thereof, better brands will stand up better because upholstery doesn't crack as easy, gel coat doesn't fade as easy, fiberglass won't stress crack as easy, wood will be better treated for marine use and can last as long as fiberglass, throttle cables won't seize up or rust as easy, more durable fittings that don't break as easy (handles, etc.), electronics that last longer...this "research-based" (because I'm a rookie) list goes on and on. But yes, I'd consider anything from lower tier upwards, and even some budget tier depending on maintenance and specific models with better quality history. The opposite holds true for some mid and top level brands.

Your chart is missing a lot of qualifiers such as the size versus the brand. Formula only makes larger bowriders that start at nosebleed prices and Bayliner makes them in many sizes while you missed most of the VEC boats completely though they may not be common in your neck of the woods. Cobalt also doesn't make any small bowriders (since about 2001/2ish at least) whereby only certain brands even offer a luxury small bowrider. Chaparral, for example, offered top of the line, small bowriders for many years in the 2000's for which you couldn't even buy an equivalent small bowrider from most manufacturers because they only offered that level of amenities in their larger boats....then later on, everybody started to catch up but now Chaparral doesn't offer their highest quality boat in their small model any longer because of the economic downturn and so created a new lower level line of boats. In other words, some of those brands are not direct comparisons and would need to be qualified or put onto a separate chart. Also, the year makes a big difference whereby some brands were already a generation ahead of other brands at certain points in time then a few years later other brands caught up or were on the way to modernizing.
Monterey is lucky to hit the lower-level brand in some years but is mid level in other years, Regal can go either way depending on year and size and I would combine your budget and lower-level labels into one category. Sea Ray's larger boats are excellent but their smaller models are Sea Ray in name only and spartan.

 

[Rookster]

No Title

A few more words on fiberglass vs. wood. From what I've extensively researched, I've come up with the following: Fiberglass decks are often touted as better than wood. Apparently that's not always true - here are some comparison points: 1) Fiberglahss, pound for pound, is actually heavier than wood. In applications where it is alledgedly lighter, would be because the stringers under the deck are likely hollow and filled with foam core. 2). When Fiberglass is compromized (stress cracked) due to boat usage over time and not much can be done to slow or prevent this from happening, or to correct it, beside using a filler. 3). You can't always really tell what condition your fiberglass stringers are in below your fiberglass encased deck, as the typical tests for wood deck degradation, don't work. 4) when the above happens, it can let water through into that foam or the spaces in the fiberglass stringers which, in cold climates, can freeze, expand, and further crack the stringers, weakening the boat's overall strength and longevity. 5). When number 2 above happens, its more costly and complicated (not a driveway job) to fix, compared to wooden stringers. 6). Fiberglass is louder in the water (boat equivalent to road noise on a car) and apparently less flexible than wood. So, at the end of the day, from what I've researched, there are only two fiberglass manufacturers (that I could afford) which I have faith in - Four Winns and Campion. Top level manufacturers such as Cobalt, Chaparral and Crownline, actually reverted back to marine grade would for the above reasons, with Crownline offering lifetime transferable guarantee on its wooden deck and stringers. Crownline switched over to XL treated marine grade in 1998, when it became available. If you buy a used boat that has had new wood floors installed, try to find out if it was marine grade vs. standard wood from Home Depot. That said, keep in mind that the outdoor grade wood on our roof tops, often not even lined before shingles are installed on top of it, is just ply...and lasts decades, through severe summers and winters of rain, snow and ice! Here are a couple videos of the Campion build process and the Crownline build process. With Crownline, this process hasn't advanced much since 1998, I don't think: Campion (fiberglass) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBAUp_vZbw Crownline (wood): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DDngzvWlvtw Also, here's a picture I took myself last month of (2-inch long, 1/16th inch wide, not sure how deep) fiberglass cracks below deck, in a 2006 Glasstron 180 Bowrider, when I looked down below deck through the ski locker. This boat is built with 100% fiberglass - filled with foam cores - and alledgedly no wood (although I saw wood constructionunder the sunpad):

 

[Rookster]

Jkust - all true statements...that's just my opinionated and partially evidence-based (yet somewhat accurate) list. As I said, many factors can move the brands up and down through the ranks, and other qualifiers as you stated, can move some off the list altogether (that's why I listed Formula as "Exotic"), and other qualifiers still may include ones (albeit likely lesser-known) that I missed - such as Glasstron and Ebtide...which in my opinion and research, both sit between low and mid. In fact depending on the brand, year and size, many brands span more than one category, but that list (which also has lots in common with lists/opinions of others aboard iBoat) is what I'd like to think of as a general rule of thumb that considers the majority rather than the exceptions. Whether that majority is large or small, is always up for debate.

 

[ezmobee]

If you look for "dual console" boats you'll generally get a sturdier build, self bailing deck, higher freeboard, deeper V, more seaworthy boat.They're almost always outboard powered though. I may be a bit biased but I think they're the ideal bowrider. My '02 Hydra-Sports is also wood-free.

 

[jkust]

If you look for "dual console" boats you'll generally get a sturdier build, self bailing deck, higher freeboard, deeper V, more seaworthy boat.They're almost always outboard powered though. I may be a bit biased but I think they're the ideal bowrider. My '02 Hydra-Sports is also wood-free.

Look at any of the youtube videos that record boats entering and exiting various inlets such as Haulover. Rare to see a bowrider and common to see the Dual Consoles because of their superior big water abilities. The bowriders clearly get beat around in those videos.

 

[ezmobee]

No Title

Look at any of the youtube videos that record boats entering and exiting various inlets such as Haulover. Rare to see a bowrider and common to see the Dual Consoles because of their superior big water abilities. The bowriders clearly get beat around in those videos.

We got ours because we boat on a long narrow winding lake that people have some BIG boats on and we were tired of getting the crap beat out of us in our 18' bowrider. My DC is only 20' but that sucker is deep. You could smuggle a family in the ski locker. I love having a self bailing deck for when it rains while it's docked I don't even have to worry about it. I'd never have a traditional sofa-on-carpeted-plywood bowrider after having a DC.

You can see how much more substantial it is next to our old boat:

 

[Old Ironmaker]

In a province like Ontario where there is as much water as land one would think finding a "good" older boat would be easy, It isn't. I looked for years for the boat in my budget. There are plenty of boats here but not many good older boats. People tend to hold onto the good ones or I have found pass them down to their kids when they are old enough to have a boat. Unless Gen X ers have a great job boating isn't in a working man with a young families budget. Good luck searching, it isn't easy. I wouldn't get too hung up on how much wood is under a floor. It's all about condition not material.

 

[jkust]

The properties of wood in a boat are actually a good thing....except for their susceptibility to rot. At a certain age, so many boats have seen several owners and one of those owners didn't do it right.