Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "experts&q

[JasonJ]

<br /><br />This is a crack on Play2wins transom. He has removed all wood, and this crack extends to the bottom. Apparently the shell has brittlness issues. I recommended repairing on both sides using epoxy and layers of cloth in a dished format on the outside, and just layered on the inside, and then laying in a layer of epoxy saturated cloth on the entire inner shell, then laying in his ply layers and so on. Any other suggestions from the pros or those who have been there and done that are welcomed, I don't want to be the only person giving suggestions, there may be something I am missing.

 

[Ryoken]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

sounds like good suggestions to me.. <br /><br />the only thing i would do slightly different at work would be lamming composite to it for that first inner layer as opposed to wood, after the initial crack repair. and maybe adding a lammed transom plate of composite to the outside if it wouldn't hinder anything.. <br /><br />mmm, composite sandwich.

 

[play2win]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Repair inside of crack with cloth or roving? Does it make a difference? Composite in between cloth and wood? What exactly is composite?

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Roving is the large weave you see in the hull layup. It is very strong. Biaxial cloth would do the trick as well (the weave is at 45 degrees as opposed to 90 degree weave on roving and cloth). It might not be a bad idea to either find a website that can show you the different materials or you can go to a shop that repairs boats and they can show you. When I did my project I went to a shop and they showed me different repairs they were doing and showed me the best materials for the certain repairs. They were pretty cool, they entertained me for well over an hour (and I spent a bunch of cash there in materials because of it). Hopefully you can find a place like that, seeing it in person makes a huge difference.<br /><br />By definition, a composite is basically two or more materials laminated together. Wood and fiberglass together can be a composite, fiberglass and foam can be a composite. Ryoken may be refering to a certain composite that is readily available. Hopefully he'll let you know what it is he is refering to.

 

[Ryoken]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

hey play2 and jason too <br /><br />yeah, it seems like there may be a little confusion as to the product i'm refering to as a few others here have refered to sandwiched glass items in the same way..<br /><br />the product i'm talking about is solid extruded fiberglass composite.. made in huge machine under great pressure i assume. its a solid sheet, super hard, super dense. you could never in a million years lay up or vacuume bag anything nearly as good as this stuff. available in 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, etc thick. also angle, channel, box, etc... very pricey, 4x8 of 1/4 is like $350 or so.. also 1/4 is so stiff and dense that a 4x8 does not bend. the 1/8 bends pretty good tho. diamond tipped saws are needed to cut it.. <br /><br />i recently posted some info about my local distributor of this product but have since found the brochure at work for the actual maker. i'll try to remember to bring it home morrow. <br /><br />i'm just finishing up a project now where i had to replace the 2 doorframes leading into the aft deck area of a big Taiwan aft cab that had rotted out.. i replaced the ply with lammed composite. its bulletproof now... you can actually let this stuff just sit outside for years unfinished and it is unaffected..<br /><br />not really something for the do-it-yourselfer (unless your ambitous) but for daily projects in the yard it is invaluable to me.. i've used it for cockpit decks, flooring, keel shoes, brackets, dashs, etc, etc...<br /><br />a piece of 1/4 on the inside and outside of that transom would make it indestructable..

 

[BillP]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Before I did any glassing I'd check to see if the hull has spread and caused the crack to be that wide. Chances are it can be pulled together and will match right up. Use a spanish windless to pull it together...3/8 line is all you need. Then do the repair.<br /><br />I'd glass it from inside and just do a cosmetic repair on the outside. If it actually is a wide crack I'd tape mylar over the outside and glass against it...from the inside. Most outboard boats (non bracketed ones)have very thin outer hull transom skins that don't give much structure in the center. The transom core (ply?)takes the load and transmits it to where it is tabbed to the hull sides and bottom.<br /><br />Oh, and I'd use mat for the crack repair and alternating mat, woven roven for the final glass job. With an emphasis on heavy layups about 4"-6" around the tabbing area.

 

[play2win]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Thanks for all of the responses. Hmmmmmmm...., three different posts, 3 diff. options. So which one do I venture with today? The crack is now together (by pulling boat back together), and I have a piece of wood c-clamped to top of crack to keep straight. Now the question - just cloth? Just mat? Just woven roving? A sandwich of mat, cloth/roving, mat? All I want is the absolute strongest bondfor the inside of outer skin, and of course the best possible adhesion for the plywood. Any layers of glass in between layers of ply?

 

[ob15]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

I would use biax cloth (12 oz. min). It is super strong. To fill the crack, see if you can epoxy a piece of wood in there. Use an epoxy putty for glueing (wood flour or cabosil). If not use chopped glass strands and some cabosil and make a thick epoxy putty to fill it. Then cover both sides with biax. I would suggest 1 layer outside & 2 inside. Make sure all surfaces are rough sanded real well to create a good glue surface. Use epoxy & microballons as a fairing coat after cloth.<br /><br />If you wonder about this process check out the boat I just built. http://bellsouthpwp.net/o/b/ob15/

 

[Ryoken]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

ok, i found the site for the composite we use..<br /><br /> http://www.pultrude.com <br /><br />amazing stuff...

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Ryoken, I remember that discussion now. Sounds like some rockin' stuff. Never rot...

 

[BillP]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

play2win,<br />There is "one way is the only way" to do this type of work. All will work and you won't know the difference...but do it with the method that makes you feel best.<br /><br />Some general rules to follow:<br /><br />You have three resin choices...<br />1. polyester - least cost and strength but adding bulk makes up for the strength. Most boats are built with it. Easy to work with because you can adjust the kicking time to meet construction and weather constraints. No sanding required between coats if you use laminating resin.<br /><br />2. vinyl ester poly - much stronger, adheres better and costs more than poly. Some cost as much as generic epoxy. Same as poly to work with.<br /><br />3. Epoxy - approx 35% stronger (lb per lb)than regular poly resin. No altering kick times so it can be harder to work with if temps or work time is an issue. It's superiority is sticking to poor surfaces, it glues and gap fills without loosing strength. NO comparison to poly if the BEST is wanted. <br /><br />Don't do polyester over epoxy resin. It won't stick. <br /><br />Use epoxy for max strength per pound of material. There is a special mat for epoxy. Not the same as polyester mat. You HAVE to use the right mat with epoxy or it will not wet out.<br /><br />Use styrene for thinning polyester resin and for wiping down surfaces that polyester will be used on. Acetone works but not as good. <br /><br />Use acetone or denatured alcohol to thin epoxy. Either works.<br /><br />Thicken with glass fibers to keep strength. All other methods reduce strength.

 

[play2win]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

It looks as though I will be using West System Epoxy for boat. If anyone is familiar with product, which fillers should I use for certain applications? Applying fiberglass cloth, laminating wood for transom. Has anyone used their product? What has worked best?

 

[Ryoken]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

we use west exclusively.. hehe, went thru a gallon today... <br /><br />anyway, the 404, 406 or 403 will be fine for lamming, i tend to like the 403 for lamming.. 410 makes excellent fairing compound also... you can blend the fillers also...<br /><br />go to there site and check out the filler chart application.. lot of good info on the site too..<br /><br /> http://www.westsystem.com/

 

[play2win]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Ryoken, <br />I am going to use 403 for lamming wood. What do you use when sheathing in transom from inside? When "wetting out" wood, do you use only the epoxy, or add something to it. When I glass in my stringer and other things, do I add a filler to fiberglass, or just use the unthickened epoxy? When I clamp transom together, I am going to use stainless steel screws throughout - do I also bolt through were engine mount, etc holes are. If I bolt through, when epoxy cures, wont they be permanently glued and unable to be removed? Everyhting is cut and ready to go, just waiting for the weather to accomodate me for a weekend day!!

 

[Ryoken]

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

Re: Play2wins Transom Crack-other suggestions for him from the other "exper

when lamming ply i usually wet out the ply with straight epoxy, then put a coat of 403 thickened epoxy on top of that to fill and gaps and voids.<br /><br />as far as stingers there have been many excellent replies in a couple other threads concerning this. generally they are bedded down with thickened epoxy, then glassed in, etc..<br /><br />this link may get you to a thread.. http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=001252 <br /><br />heres another... http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=001301 <br /><br />as far as attachment, clamps are best, where can get them. and screws where nesc... you should be able to use your boltholes too if you need, but not nesc. but expect to wreck bolts bashing them back out. so use old ones. also coating them with some grease will help get them back out. make sure they are not tight going thru the parts. if you dont need the bolts, just ream a drill thru after the epoxy cures. <br /><br />also, they have some great tips over on the West site, worth a readthru...