Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

rino

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I am trying to figure out this whole fiberglass thing so I have a wood shelf (solid pine) and I want to cover it with fiberglass and make a nice bright white fiberglass cutting board for the boat; this might be a good little project to learn how to use fiberglass to do repairs or finish other work on the boat like some semi-structural work.<br /><br />I have the $10 Bondo Polyester resin and liquid hardener, fiberglass mat, spreader, etc.<br /><br />Do I just cover the board with the mat and saturate it with the resin/hardner mix? Do I need more than one layer of mat?<br /><br />After I coat the mat and the board is dry; how do I get it smooth on top of the mat? Sanding the glass mat still leaves a pokey surface and it's kind of brown. Do I need to make a creamy toothpaste-like resin to smooth it out? Do I have to put a thick coat of gel coat to make it smooth and white? Bondo resin is kind of brown.<br /><br />I've used marine tex before with good results but this time I want to learn how to do it with regular resin hardner and glass mat.<br /><br />I'm not in a rush I'm just looking for some real-life experience to learn how to fiberglass without marinetex.<br /><br />Any resources/tutors online?<br /><br />iBoats/Don Casey has some good info but it didn't fill in the blank on how to make the surface smooth like a bathtub.<br /><br />The main reason for not using marine tex is the price; are there opther cheap epoxy resins like marine tex for a much lower cost that don't need to be painted or gel coated to be smooth? Please fill me in. I'm also reading other topics to get more background on the whole process.<br /><br />Rino Gallipoli
 

Bondo

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crab bait

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

boy, that's a tall order/hard project.. pritnear impossiable if you ask me..<br /><br />for one thing ,, mat is the worst,, cloth is better ,, mat's purpose is to build up a fiberglass thickness in multi-layers.. which alone is rough an fibers/hairs all which-a-way.. than coat after coat of resin to hide the weave must be applied .. <br /><br />another problem ,, is that no material mat or cloth resin or epoxy will conform to cure around 90 degree angles as the case with a board..<br /><br />try it an it'll be one big ugly costly mess..<br /><br />it can be done.. but i can't explain by typing it on a web site..way to hard to do..
 

ThomWV

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

Just a couple of quick comments. First is this, polyester resin does not bond well to wood. If you do it as you describe (which would be as good a way to learn as any I suppose) it will just be a short matter of time until it delaminates. If its encapsulating wood you need to do you'l be far better off using epoxy. In fact I've quit using polyester alltogether. The stuff is just nasty, it doesn't bond well, it is hard to control as far as set goes, and it smells like hell. About all I can say good about it is that its cheap.<br /><br />The next thing is this, fiberglass will make a terrible cutting board, the glass fiber will be exposed by the knife cuts and it will dull knives so fast you will be simply stunned by it. As an example of how quickly and surely glass can dull cutting edges just take a core drill and blast a hole through a glassed over piece of wood some time. You get about two holes per hole saw and then you toss them. If its a cutting board you are looking for you'll be a lot better off just picking up either a chunk of starboard and using it (makes great cutting boards and is easy to shape using normal woodworking tools) or just head out to your local Costco or, heaven forbid, Wally World and pick up a normal cutting board you you can shape to your needs. I think you'll be far more satisfied with the utility of what you end up with that way than making a glass one.<br /><br />Thom
 

rino

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

I have some one weak (flexing) engine cover panel 4' by 3'. <br /><br />It looks like fiberglass coated plywood with a non-skid grid.<br /><br />Should I just get an epoxy-based resin and coat it with the epoxy resin (with proportional hardner)?<br /><br />Are other epoxy resins similar to Marine Tex? Marine tex was easy and trouble-free when I used it to fil some cracks and screw holes topside.<br /><br />I'll try the Bondo fiberglass stuff and sand away and see if a lot of sanding and adding a thick coat of resin makes a difference on my "sample" project before I ruin the engine cover.
 

ThomWV

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

Rino,<br /><br />Keep this difference between polyester and epoxy in mind. When you use poly you control the set time by the amount of hardner you use. With epoxy you have to mix the hardner/resin at exact ratio and you control the set time by the type of hardner you use. It really is a major difference.<br /><br />As to the 3'x4' application to stop flexing. Once again you will be very disapointed. Glass, when thin, has very little strength. To make it strong you have two choices of how to proceed. The first is the make it thick, which works, and the second is to make it anything other than flat. Fiberglass gets extreme strength when you have curves in it. So if you want to stop the flexing what you really need to do is make the underlieing plywood strong first. To do that simply screw in braces on the bottom side. Take yourself a couple of length of something like 1"x1" wood and screw them to the bottom across the long end, a foot apart or so. That should tighten it up pretty nicely. Then you can glass the top to waterproof it and if you want to add cloth or matt you can do that too. If you do add cloth or matt let me suggest this to you. First lay down the cloth on the dry wood and then take either a paint brush or a roller to apply the mixed resin/hardner (already premixed of course). Also, use this method of application of the juice when making small repairs, just use those dirt cheap throw-away paint brushes you can pick up for less than a buck apiece at most home improvement stores. A bunch of those plastic cups is a good thing to pick up too.<br /><br />MarineTex, ah, Marinetex. I think its great stuff where it makes sense to use it and that a lot of guys use it in a lot of places where it has no business being used. What it is very very good for is filling wollowed out screw holes so you have new material for a good bite for replacement screws. It is also good to use as an adhesive in a place where you want permanance and waterproofness, anywhere you might more sensibly use 5200. What it is not so good for is almost anything else. There is no place where you would need it that you can not make up your own thickened mix a lot cheaper by simply using one of West System's fillers. West System makes a whole host of them for special applications, all of which work very well for their intended use. You can mix the amount you need of the sort that suits your needs and to a consistancy that fits what you need to do with it. Also, while West System doesn't mention it the fillers work just as well with polyester resin as they do with epoxy. At the very least pick up a can of 404 High Density filler.<br /><br />While I'm on the West System kick I sould mention that they have available a series of booklets that are inexpensive and give a lot of basic information on the use of their products. These things are really more like pamphlets, usually around 20 pages or so, with lots of pictures and drawings and very good explainations of where and how to use their products. The information applies to all epoxys. Also, Rakahas a Users Manual that is pretty brief but that they send with each sale that can be very helpful. The link will take you to a copy of it.<br /><br />By the way, there is a process called vacuume bagging that can take all of the aggrivation out of corners when laminating. It takes a bit to set up for it but if you plan to do a lot of glassing it can be a godsend to know about. Its not out of the reach of the typical do-it-yourself sort of guy.<br /><br />I should tell you this too. I don't do an awful lot of glassing other than repairs and an occasional small building project. About once a year I buy one of Raka's 6-quart kits. The 'kit' includes a gallon of resin, a quart of fast hardner and a quart of slow (they can be mixed to control set time). I have a set of their mixing pumps and the stuff lasts forever. It is one of the most handy things I keep at the house. Anytime I need to the stuff is there to laminate, glue, make up pastes for fillers, do hole patches, and on and on. The last one I bought cost me $75, I think it may be a buck or two higher this year. It is well worth the money. The same amount of material by West Systems would run you well over $100 and wouldn't work any better (or any worse).<br /><br />By the way, as I recall if you go to Raka's price list he actually gives you a lot of information about the appropriate use of the stuff he is selling in the various kits. Of course he also sells everything individually. Also, I should mention this too because in a lot of ways its even more important. When I say Raka and then say "He" what I mean is that the company is really just one guy, named Larry, who takes your order and ships the stuff. If you give him a call he will make up a package to suit your needs and he will, or always has anyway, give you all the information and advice you need to have your project work out as well as possible. I'm not a glass person myself so I've found his advice invaluable over the years.<br /><br />I hope this helps you out.<br /><br />Thom
 

rino

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

I sent Larry an Email about getting pricing for a small amount;<br /><br />I'll look into the West system to get a resin, hardener, coloring agent, 404 (thickening agent).<br /><br />After reading a bunch of online info on fiberglassing most of the information lead me to believe polyester resin was what I wanted to use and coat it with gel coat. Now after more research it's good to see I can use epoxy resin for all the same things (and more) and I can just add a coloring agent and thickener to do what I need.<br /><br />Now comes the experiment....
 

Terry H

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

rino...I thought this was a trick question, but I see you are serious, and now you have a good handle on it. This isn't rocket science so I expect you will do just fine... :cool:
 

raymondmoyer

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

I have a question for the fiberglass users amongst us :D Have any of you ever expiremented with using rope to strengthen flat panels when glassing ? I work in the car audio industry, and am just now getting into boating ( fishing mainly ) I have made many fiberglass enclosures, and panels with glass, and a little carbon fiber thrown in now and then when somebody has more money than sense :D I have found that I can cut down on the thickness and weight by glassing in short lengths of rope to create ribs on the underside of panels. It is amazing the strength that is aquired with this. Does this seem like a feasable option for flooring ? :)
 

crab bait

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

O'YEAH.. carbon fiber is the poop..!!<br /><br />just a thread bond in can make a big differance in strenght..<br /><br />i build & fly & race r/c airplanes..<br /><br />'QUICKEE 500's to be exact.. these are tough little planes that fly-on-a-rail..<br /><br />back in the day ,, the engine of choice was a rossi..italian made..<br /><br />then an american engine hit the scene like wildfire.. nelson motors.. <br /><br />bolt on a nelson,, an garenteed it would fold the wings in half after the 3rd pylon..<br /><br />wings were foldin' up all over the place cause the motor was just that awlsom..<br /><br />guys solved the problem by super gluin' or epoxin' a thin strip of carbon fiber to the underneath of wing.. <br /><br />it fixed that problem ,pronto..<br /><br />i call it 'instant I-beam'
 

crab bait

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

there's also a wooden boat/yacht builder down eastern shore maryland in the pretty little town of oxford called CUTTS & CASE on the tred avon river ..<br /><br />'old man case' patent a procejure that uses kevlar rope in the buildin' process... <br /><br />all there crafts are two skin boats.. one layer of plankin',, then routed to half depth down the outside from shear to shear/gunale to gunale.. all the way the lenght of the boat.. about 8 inches apart..<br /><br />then the appropiate size kevlar rope is epoxied/layed in the rout channel.. the epoxied rope looks like a greased snake when beein' installed.. i seen this one day while there..<br /><br />then a the second layer of plankin' is epoxied/screw down over top..<br /><br />let me tell ya's,,, these are some awlsom crafts an strong as any with alot ,,an i mean ALOT less bulkheads/frames/braces.. which equates into a more open more roomy craft..<br /><br />been down there a few times an talked with old man case an his sons about boat buildin'..they told me infacticly that this process is not for plywood boats.. to my dismay..<br /><br />there a great buncha guys an will stop in a give ya the time-of-day..<br /><br />what a quintacentual boat shop it is.. oxford's one of those 'been around since the 1600's' towns .. an on C & C's property is oxfords oldest buildin' used as there office..<br /><br />i love to go there.. so inspiring..
 

rino

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

I'm going to buy the Raka or West System in a small amount and see how I do on my small test project; it's now evolved to a small glove box.<br /><br />Hopefully the Epoxy with white coloring agent gives a good white smooth finish I'm looking for; then I can move onto the engine panels and some other small projects before tackling anything too major.
 

ThomWV

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

I t hink you'll be a lot more satisfied with your creations if you plan to just finish them by sanding and paint rather than rely on putting coloring into the last coat of resin and hoping it will look nice. <br /><br />Sandpaper is the home fabricator's close friend. Interlux makes this real fine paint called Brightsides that comes in about a hundred colors and I'll bet there are more home made center consoles and tackle lockers that look great that are painted with it than there are gelcoated or final color coated. <br /><br />Anyway just plain epoxy hardens to a glossy surface and so any imperfections are very easy to see. The trick to finishing it is to get on it within about a day. If you wait much longer than that it can be pure hell to sand
 

raymondmoyer

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Re: Beginner fiberglass question: how to fiberglass a cutting board

I have a question for the fiberglass users amongst us Have any of you ever expiremented with using rope to strengthen flat panels when glassing ? I work in the car audio industry, and am just now getting into boating ( fishing mainly ) I have made many fiberglass enclosures, and panels with glass, and a little carbon fiber thrown in now and then when somebody has more money than sense I have found that I can cut down on the thickness and weight by glassing in short lengths of rope to create ribs on the underside of panels. It is amazing the strength that is aquired with this. Does this seem like a feasable option for flooring ? <br /><br /><br />Anybody have any opinions on this. :)
 
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