Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

[olmpilot]

In removing the floor (floor rot problem post) I cam across this piece of wood that was under the floor and the sides http://www.rawdesigns.com/Personal/boat/Decking Removal/Wedge.JPG <br />. Is it common for the manufacturer to use "shims" such as this, or can I assume the floor has been replaced before? Also, how common is it to find that the entire insides of a 1989 boat are rotted? Just doing some exploratory work, I think my cuddy cabin is shot too... not just the main deck!!!<br /><br />Next time I buy a boat I will get a marine survey done for sure! I thought paying as much as I did would be better so I didn't have to go through this stuff!!! Ouch!

 

[Winger Ed.]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Boats are designed in part to be as fast and easy as possible for the manufacturer to assemble. You don't see a lot of shimming, its too easy to be designed out and would add more parts to the puzzle for the folks putting it together.<br /><br />But that one doesn't look bad, they might have discovered a weak spot where the floor wasn't supported enough to be solid. Sticking that shim in there was easier and quicker than modifying the hull's design.

 

[prockvoan]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Your boat would happen to be a Bayliner?If it is,look out for more trouble down the line.When replacing the decking,seal her up good,but before doing that,check out the stringer system.Chances are it will be rotting too!In your picture,looking at the foam,looks like it is wet or was very wet at one time.It might have to be replaced to.

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Sorry about the state of your boat, OLM. I've seen a number of people buy boats over the years and get caught in that. That's why I buy dirt cheap and just plan to start out with a bunch of work. I guess you're in the right place to get info. on it, though. If you're still working on it in the spring, look me up. I'll be home in February, and would love to come help you out with it, if only for the experience.

 

[jimmythekid]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Don't feel bad, alot of older boats are purchased this way it seems. Somwhere around the 20 yr old mark they rot out all of a sudden, some alot newer than that also. Your in the right place for help thats for sure!! Hows the rest of the boat?? It appears to me the pic is showing the side of the hull where it meets the floor? I started out to replace some bad cushions and trim, look at my pis and thats where im at now. Check out this site, very good reading: http://www.yachtsurvey.com/ Post lots of pics if you can Good luck

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

It is very common for a boat that age to be rotted. I have seen boats only 5 years old rot. It all depends on how it was cared for. The "its a boat, its meant to get wet" mentality reigns supreme, there is a large portion of boat owners that do not understand the care their boat needs. In your case, living in the beautiful Pacific Northwest, it is a wetter than average area. Leaving a boat uncovered up here is the equivelent of shunting all of your money into the toilet. <br /><br />It is amazing how much longer a boat lasts when kept under a carport, a cover placed over it, or it's canvas fully secured. At least by the time you are done you will know your boat inside and out, and you can do a better job of sealing everything. As for shims, I have seen shims from time to time, it is not impossible. In fact, when I did my project, I used shims in a couple places just to be sure. Its not illegal, just make sure the shims are well sealed like any other wood in the boat.

 

[olmpilot]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Thanks for all the feedback. <br /><br />Swimmin.. I'm sure I'll still be working on it and would appreciate the help/experience. But since I don't have any heat per say.. I'll probably do the reconstruction in early spring unless I can find a friend with a big garage! <br /><br />No, Prock, it's not a bayliner, it's a SeaSwirl. What kills me is that I spent the latter part of the summer (the 2 months that I had in the NW after buying it!) out on the Sound and all seemed well.. now I see what we were floating in and it's kinda scarey. <br /><br />I'm going to have a few more question I'm sure, and I appreciate the advice and information. <br /><br />One question for the regulars: If I have a question about the project, should I continue to post it to the same thread? Or should I start new ones specific to the question? I don't want to seem to be abusing the forum, so I wanted to ask the common opinion. I know I already have a list of questions to ask... course that is whatever is left when I return from Barnes and Nobel with my copy of Runabout Renovation later today! <br /><br />Thanks folks!

 

[olmpilot]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Jimmy, the part that you are seeing is not actually the hull, it's the gunnal (SP?) or fake side. The actual hull is about 3-4" in from that point. The floor goes under that portion of fiberglass about 1/2 to 1". Now you made me confess..... the wood under that "fake siding" is also rotted... but since it is cosmetic and not load bearing, I'm thinking about just leaving it be... thoughts anyone? I'm on a budget.. after all I'm still paying $6K on the initial boat purchase!

 

[Winger Ed.]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Originally posted by olmpilot:<br /> should I start new ones specific to the question

That's the way to do it. <br />It'll read faster since there won't be a 36" long string of prev. info to load first while waiting get to the fresh or new stuff.<br /><br />And post a link to your pictures. <br />Putting them on the post is great, but there again- ya have to wait for them to load each time ya check the thread to see how its developing.

 

[Winger Ed.]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Originally posted by olmpilot:<br /> I'm still paying $6K on the initial boat purchase!

If the rotten floor is all that's wrong with it, 6K is about right for what you'd have to pay for a rig like that with a helathy engine and trailer. <br /><br />Unless you stumbeled across some desperation sale, or someone that didn't know what they had-- that's in the groove for what it should sell for. I've seen guys just pick up the phone and order up a trailer for a boat that big, and it cost almost 5K. If you had the boat & trailer and needed a engine that big-- you'd probably pay over 3K just for a healthy outboard by the time it was hung and connected.<br /><br /><br />If you're careful and don't disturb anything else, and figureing your labor is worth about 7 cents an hour..... You should get out of this project for a few hundred or so, and have it back as strong as when it left the factory. <br /><br />Ed.

 

[jimmythekid]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

I dont know about anybody else, but after all the money sweat and tears I got into my boat the thought of having rot next to my brand new floor scares me. I heard that if you put rottted wood next to new wood the rot will spread to the new in short order. thats just what I heard. I did not do my transom or under the I/O but I used thinned out resin and let the older (non rotted or barely rotted that was still exposed) wood soak up as much of it as I could. try this site: http://www.rotdoctor.com/ good luck

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Olm, I personally recommend replacing any rotted wood. You'll feel better about it, and it won't add that much expense. Yes, start a new post, otherwise you stand the chance of it getting ignored. Good luck and keep it comin'...

 

[cc lancer]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

Boats are designed in part to be as fast and easy as possible for the manufacturer to assemble. You don't see a lot of shimming, its too easy to be designed out and would add more parts to the puzzle for the folks putting it together<br /><br />Someone added the "shim" for some reason, maybe the plywood was going to be low and that was added to bring it up. When you go back with the new floor run it from gunnel to gunnel, and glass it up the sides like relgun done his. It stopped any water intrusion on the sides and strengthen the boat.<br />Like what JasonJ said, they rot from people leaving them open to the weather, and they start to deteriorate.<br />I bought one today that the stringers under the engine is gone. The owner had a custom cover made with vents. Well one of the vents came out and it rained, and ice, and snow collected into the bilge. Then by freeze and thaw over 2 years with a partial stopped drain hole, the stringers disintegrated.<br /><br />jimmyTK<br />Don't forget to build up and reinforce the area under the floor where your captains chair will go.

 

[jimmythekid]

Re: Removing floor - Shims used by manufacturer?

thanks cc if you look close, you can see where I have put an angled piece of wood next to the hull, that is the area under the seat pedestals. Will alow access to the bolts from underneath. Am going to use 2 pieces of 3/4 ply laminated together to the botton of the floor. originally was just the floor top and 1 piece of 1/2 inch thick dimensional lumber