Old wood boats and water intrusion

[Mahoney]

Me and a friend were looking at a 1941 36' Crocker Custom Ketch. This boat was listed at a rediculously low figure and has been on sale for a while. It is moored in water and as of 1999 has a new Westerbeke diesel engine with 66 hours on it, and is complete with working sails and rigging.<br /><br />My question is when we looked below, apart from the obvious very neglected interior that needed to be totally refinished and put back together, there was water that was seeping through some of the seems on the hull, more of a wet condensation type intrusion, but even from the outside, it was evident that it needed an out of hull repaint, as you could see some rust bleeding through the seams of the wood planking.<br /><br />The wood all seemed solid, but I was concerned if some amount of water intrusion on this old a wooden boat was just a "given" or should you just run from something like this regardless of price. Listing says, "structuraly sound hull" which could be subjective.

 

[Realgun]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

I say Run. RUN like the wind!

 

[Mahoney]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

I was thinking the same thing, I am not scared of by the cosmetic stuff, but new engine, running condition asside, if this thing wants to fall apart in 5 yrs, it isn't worth the moorage its going to be kept at.

 

[oregonducker]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

Check out the forums at www.woodenboat.com. Some very experienced people there on the subject of wooden boats. The woodenboat magazine is exceptional too.

 

[BillP]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

If it weeps when sitting be ready for gushers when sailing. Typical reasons for a 60 yr old carvel planked wood boat to leak are old caulking or wasted fasteners causing planks or keel to be loose. That Crocker is likely iron fastened and needs refastening at that age. It may have (should have) been done already. One good thing about Crockers is many were built with bronze crossing straps to help torsion loads from twisting the hull. That helped keep them tight. Regardless, it's a candidate for a WEST systems type epoxy sheathing job at that age.

 

[Mahoney]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

It did say it had been refastened in 99, however with the exception of sailing a little with my dads friend when I was little and putzing with an older powerboat restoration, I really didn't know what to look for as far as how extensive the refastening was. It was obvious that there were bolts that had't been changed out, but I am assuming those aren't the ones that get changed in a refastening. I will be able to get a couple pics up later today if anyone is interested.

 

[BillP]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

That's probably good news. Nobody is going to refasten if the boat isn't basically sound. It may just need recaulking. Basically...you pull the old caulking out. Prime the seams with redlead (paint). Then recaulk with cotton and reseam with flexlible polysulfied. It takes a little skill to know how tight to set the cotton but you can learn it quickly. Post some pics!

 

[Realgun]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

He wants it and hes going to buy it despite him self. Oh well its his money but we want pictures!

 

[BillP]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

I can relate to wood boat fever...here's a 1938 cutter I used to own. Very similar to a Crocker.<br /><br />Img:

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[Mahoney]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

I will try to get those pics today, CONSTRUCTION:<br /><br />The vessel is constructed entirely of wood in a traditional style. A solid Douglas fir keelson acts as a backbone on top of which a series of fir stem horn timbers and deadwood assemblies have been added. Floor members and steam-bent oak frames are fitted on top of the keelson.<br /><br />Longitudinal massive stringers (both bilge and sheer) tie the framework together; the structure has been planked over in a carvel fashion, utilizing full-length, vertical-grain, Douglas fir planks. There are no vertical butt joints in the planking. The galvanized iron fasteners were reset in 1999. Plywood bulkheads help divide the hull and add some additional transverse strength. Sawed deck and carlin beams are fitted to the hull sides, over which the teak deck is laid. The deck was recaulked in 1999. The cabin structure is solid teak and bolted to the deck carlin members, including the cockpit coaming. A cast iron ballast section is bolted onto the hull bottom by a series of iron keep bolts. The bolts were inspected and found in like-new condition in 1999.<br /><br />We are kinda apprehensive about this one, but I do find it hard to believe someone would go through the time of repowering and refastening a boat of this age if it was not worth saving and maintaining.

 

[Mahoney]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

Pics<br /> http://client.webshots.com/album/308793172KAwpaP

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

Big thing you NEED to know is that insurance is going to be very very hard to get, and expensive, and most marina's won't even let you into their yard without insurance. I went through all that with a 46' Chris Craft, it's in the dump now as I was banished to a mooring till it ended up sinking. No mercy for wooden boats around here, unless their in perfect condition, and the owners are made of money. Think real hard on this one. even if it's free, plan on $5000 the first year........

 

[DJ]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

There was not, will not, be a wooden boat ever made that didn't leak.<br /><br />Your worst enemy is dry rot. A marine surveyor will find that.<br /><br />The worst thing one can do to a wood boat is to "pull it" and let it dry out. "Leakage" is/was needed to swell seams and keep the boat reasonably dry.<br /><br />Have a marine suveyor look it over. Pick a surveyor that actually knows something about wood boats.

 

[Mahoney]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

that is kind of what I thought. pending any purchase of this, there would definitely be a survey. It has been VERY dry here in seattle with the exception of the week just prior to looking a the boat in which case there was over 3 inches of soaking rain that week. With the exception of having it underway, probably the best time to really see it in its worse state of leakage.

 

[DJ]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

Mahoney,<br /><br />Your hired suveyor will tell you the condition of the vessel. Again, just make sure that he/she actually knows wood boats.<br /><br />I wouln't be afraid of it, right off the bat. This is where an expert is worth a million$$$$.<br /><br />On the other hand, nothing is more pleasing than sailing on a true wooden vessel. It gives a sense of pride and they DO handle differently. More stable and forgiving, IMHO.

 

[Mahoney]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

Thanks DJ,<br /><br />Living in the Puget Sound and having the San Juan Islands a weekend cruise away, something like this would be great to get up and going(It is in running condition as the marina has moved it around periodically). I am assuming you have looked at the pics I posted. Its a great old boat, but needs a ton of cosmetic refinishing for sure, that stuff I love doing.<br /><br />I guess pending a survey from a knowledgable wooden boat surveyor, there probably isn't much most can tell me about this vessel. One good thing is it has been floating for over a year for sure, so its got that going for it!

 

[BillP]

Re: Old wood boats and water intrusion

Here ya go...use this as a guide for looking the boat over. It is for wooden boats. Best bet is to look it over and see if you still want it. If so, hire a marine surveyor who grew up surveying wooden sailboats. Forget young surveyors for wood boat surveys.<br /><br />One note on those keelbolts or any other fasteners...they CANNOT be evaluated without removal. They normally waste first where the planks meet and you can't see them, both ends can looks A1 but the middle is wasted...it looks like an hourglass. Don't listen to anyone who says different. I've pulled many fastenings on old wooden sailboats. <br /><br />Iron fasteners RESET? What the hexx does that mean? That isn't experienced surveyor language. Typical refastening on an old boat like this means driving or screwing one new fastener between the originals. Once fasteners get too wasted they cannot be removed in any practical sense. Driving hot dipped galv nails with new bungs is the easiest way to get another 20+ yrs out of the boat.<br /><br /><br />Bill P.<br /><br />Img:

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