A few n00b questions...

[FireW0lf]

Hi forumisers - am new here. Looked around and it seems there are some pretty trained ppl in here<br /><br />I bought my missus a power boat not so long back. It is around 19.5 feet long from stem to transom with a Mariner 40 on the back<br /><br />It is fibreglass<br /><br />It has a planing hull<br /><br />The cabin is just forward of the beam, almost half the length of the boat. In the cabin are two flat forward facing windows, and one flat window at each bow. It has a single hatch in the centre<br /><br />I was told that it was a "Teal"(sp?) but on ask.com, google.com and dogpile.com I've drawn a blank to an exact match<br /><br />I reckon it is 20+ years old judging by the style of it (will take some pics over the next day or two to post - see if we can narrow it down a bit)<br /><br />On reading other posts here, seems that many have an ID either on the hull, or the transom somewhere. Is this a fixed place that they put it? Is it stamped? Painted? Embossed on a tally plate? If it's painted on, I've no chance, being this old it has countless layers of paint on it<br /><br />I'd like to find out, so I could buy a cover for it (pram?) so that we could also go out on rainy days - the views off the west coast of Scotland (where we are) are fantastic no matter what the weather. If all else fails, I'm not too bad with my hands and could always make my own<br /><br />I'm actually looking to give it a complete refit, and it seems the previous owner(s) did a very "sling it together as fast/cheap as possible so we can use it" job on it, so I'll be stripping all the crap off it, fitting a new dash, gps etc. It has 2 fuel tanks - around 2 gallon each. One on either side of the transom. I'm possibly looking to replace these with bigger ones... One thing I definitely want to do is add fuel guages to the dash. All I know about this is I need a guage and "sender unit" for each tank. Can I use generic senders? Do they need calibrated to the guage? Are they easy to fit? Do they fit in the lid, or do I need to cut a hole in the tanks?<br /><br />Also, how easy is a drain plug to fit? Can I easily do it myself, or am I best paying somebody to fit it?<br />Edit: Checked out drain plugs in the Mega Mall - they look straightforward enough. Just wondering tho... What kinda screws/sealer would I use? Remember the boat is fibre-glass. Please post generic name, not brand-names (of sealers) as I am in Scotland, UK and manufacturers will undoubtedly use different names. Will standard mastic sealant work okay?<br /><br />Lots of info I know, but if anybody even knows bits it would help loads<br /><br />Thanks in advance guys

 

[Omega-1]

Re: A few n00b questions...

Hi Firewolf,<br />I can see that you have many upcoming projects in getting your boat as you want it. If you take your time and tackle each item and complete it to satisfaction, you will probably have your boat fitted out within two to three years. Since you have many concerns, may I suggest that you consider taking a boating safety course which may be offered by various boating organizations in your community or near by communities. There is a wealth of information which you can learn in these courses and will contribute to your personal safety at sea. <br /><br />I will try and answer some of your concerns:<br />With regard to your boat identification, usually in the USA the Hull Identification Number (HIN) is imprinted on the back of the upper starboard transom. Generally it is etched into the fiberglass. Look for it to determine if it is there. Also in order to identify the make of your boat you may want to consult local marine survey organizations by providing some detailed pictures of your vessel.<br /><br />I understand that you want to replace the two 2-gallon gas tanks with a larger one and install a gas guage as well. In order to install a "permanent" gas tank, in order to be safe and meet safety regulations, you will need to install it in a compartment either above or below deck, depending on your hull configuration and accomodations. If a permanent gas tank is installed in a compartment with an airspace around it, it must be ventilated in inflow and outflow ducts. If it is foamed in place, and there is no airspace, then you do not need venting around the tank. Remember that the tank need to be placed where there is no unbalanced weight to either side of the center line; generally this is accomplished with the tank placed in the center line of the hull within a compartment. The choice of a tank is important; if you select a steel tank, it will be subject to rust out and replacement within 5 or so years. If it is fiberglass and properly constructed with baffles, it will last the life of your hull. Additionally, permanently installed gas tanks need to have a vent tube to the exterior of the hull and a fill tube with water seal closure for filling with fuel. The tank and fill tube will need to be grounded properly to the ship's exterior ground (not the battery ground). This is accomplished with a ground plate to the exterior of the hull or to the exterior of an outboard engine using a copper woven ground strap. If this is not done properly, filling the tank may produce a static spark and blow up the ship. In order to install a fuel guage to the dash, you will need to install a sender unit on the tank's top. This unit will need to be calibrated to your guage if it is not sold to you as a unit with the tank. One other thing to remember, always fill your non-permanent removable gas tanks outside the boat with the gas fill nozzle touching the tank's fill tube to prevent static spark. One other item, many removable gas tanks are sold with gas guages as part of the lid, or on the top of the gas tank. No electrical connections are needed for these as opposed to the permanent installation with a gas guage.<br /><br />With regard to the drain plug, you will need to determine if you have a 1/2 inch or a 1 inch drain plug already installed. If there is no drain plug installed, then you will need to follow a procedure which will insure that the drilled hole to install the plug is placed correctly, and that the walls of the drilled hole is properly sealed to prevent dry rot of your transom wood. If you already have a drain plug installed and want to replace it, then purchse the proper size one with the plug, remove the old one, seal the walls of the hole once dry with marine sealant caulk applied to the hole wall and to the exterior of the drain plug. Push the plug apparatus into the transom hole after the sealant is applied, drill screw holes as needed, apply sealant to the predrilled holes and screws then place the screws around the drain collar to set it in place. Remove excess sealant, and apply the removable plug. Let the sealant cure before placing the hull back in the water.<br /><br />There are some excellent marine sealants available, among which are: 5200 Polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant and Marine-Grade Silicone Sealant. Both of these are suitable for below waterline application. Both will allow for some vibratory movement, the Silicone is more forgiving for items which may experience some minor vibratory movement from the sea or ship's action. Both need to cure before placing the boat in the water. <br /><br />I hope that this helps; make you best effort in doing the job right and be safe to sail another day.

 

[FireW0lf]

Re: A few n00b questions...

Thanks for the advice Omega<br /><br />I don't need a boat safety course, as I've been boating for many years (with the Sea Cadets) altho this is the first time we've had a boat owned by ourselves, and hence needing to do all the maintainance etc<br /><br />We'll probably do a safety course anyway tho - can't be too careful. Things might have changed, I might have forgotten things<br /><br />The removable fuel tanks I have are both the same (will be taking a look on Monday for make) and have the clear glass float bubble type guage in the top. It would be great if I could remove this and fit the sender unit in place. If not, I'll have to just degas them (if I keep these) and drill and fit senders in a free space on top<br /><br />The boat does not have any drain plug fitted just now. I do not need worry about transom wood rot, as the boat is 100% glass. Would you suggest I put a chock of wood behind where I drill my 1" bore hole, for the mounting screws to have something solid to bite into? Or will the grades of sealant you suggested be fine? Do I need a spreader tool for *all* types of plug, or are many fine just screwed/glued into place?<br /><br />The project will only take a few weeks, if I go at it full time (I'm a contract worker, and waiting for the start-date of my next contract - means I have some free time). I'm happy rebuilding all the dash, adding GPS (via a MiniITX pc), depth sounder, speedo, guages, redoing all electrics etc - it's just the sender and drain I was wanting to get some info on<br /><br />Thanks again

 

[Omega-1]

Re: A few n00b questions...

Firewolf,<br /><br />Since your transom is 100% plastic/fiberglass material you have no concerns for dryrot. Water leaks would be the next concern. The simplist drain plug to install is a two part system which consists of a bronze tube and a springloaded leveraged plug. This system works quite well and does not require any screws to hold it in place like the transom drain plugs with the screw in plug. The bronze tube type is demonstrated at the following website for your reveiw:<br /> http://www.bosunsupplies.com Open up this site then click on DECK HARDWARE, a page will open up, go down the page about 1/2 way on the right and you will see the TRANSOM DRAIN PLUG. Click on this item and you will see before you the selection lengths for the bronze tubes. The tubes come in two lengths: 1 7/8" and 2 7/8", all are 1" diameter. In order to install this system, you will need to drill a 1" hole through the transom at its lowest point without penetrating the bottom of the hull. If you know the thickness of the hull bottom at the transom, you can measure on the outside of the lowest point of the transom vertically to a drill point for a 1" hole. Allow at least 3/8" clearance above the thickness of the hull bottom where the arc of the 1" drill hole will fall. Example: if the hull bottom is 1" thick at the transom, then add 3/8" for the clearance, above this clearance point, make sure the arc of the drill hole will not encronch on the 3/8" clearance allowance. Usually a flat sharp 1" wood bit will do to drill this hole. I would suggest that you predrill a small pilot hole (about 1/8") where you intend to put the point of the wood bit. Then take you wood bit, center it at the predrill hole and see where the arc will fall in relation to the bottom of the transom, inside and outside the hull. If you are satisfied that you will clear the 3/8" clearance allowance, and not drill into the hull bottom, then go ahead and drilll the 1" hole. Once this hole is drilled, if it is a little snug, take a round file and file out some of the tight spots, then slip in your transom bronze drain tube. If it fits snugly and is the proper length to go all the way through flush with the inside of the transom bilge, then you can use either of the marine grade caulk material mention above. If the tube you obtain is a little long, cut it off about 1/8" long, and cement it in place. Leave it set to cure, the put in the drain plug. The only tools you will need for this job will be an electric drill with a flat 1" wood drill bit, a 3/8" pilot drill bit for metal or plastic long enough to penetrate the thickness of the transom, measuring tape, good lighting, marine caulk/sealant material. <br /><br />Remember, a good carpenter or craftsman measures twice and cuts only once! Be safe; let me know how you come out on this.

 

[FireW0lf]

Re: A few n00b questions...

Hi again. On looking, I found that the 2 fuel cans are 6 gallon cans, identical to eachother. The float guage is integral to the fuel line connector. Any idea if this could be replaced with a sender?<br /><br /> <br /><br />Regarding fitting the drain plug: This has a bilge keel, as so I cannot get to the inside of where the drain plug would need to be fitted. Is the marine silicon sealant strong enough by itself to hold the plug hole in place securely? Before I thought about this I was considering putting a small piece of hardwood behind it to screw into

 

[Omega-1]

Re: A few n00b questions...

Good morning,<br />Yes, marine grade silacone sealant, once fully cured will hold the transom drain tube in place. There is no need for any backing plate or board. Make sure when you drill the hole for the transom drain tube to make it perfectly horizontal to the plane of the transom so that the external curled edge of the tube will fit snug against the exterior fiberglass. Once the hole is drilled, vaccum out any loose particles, see that the drain tube fits snugly in the hole, then treat the hole linine with marine grade silacone sealant and the exterior surface of the tube; slip the tube into the hole, wipe away excess sealant and let it cure for about three days before placeing the hull in water.<br /><br />In order to determine if a sender unit will work in your six gallon tanks, you will need to evaluate the space available in the tank for the sender unit's float arm to operate freely without striking any object within the tank or its walls. From your pictures, it appears that the only place an electrical sender unit can be placed is in the center of the tank's top, with the arc of the float arm positioned below the fill cap. Take a look at an electrical sender unit at one of the marine supply outlets in your area, measure the float arm for its length and arc of movement up and down. If you have enough vertical clearance in the tank for the up and down arc of the float arm, and enough lateral space for the length of the float arm with no obstructions for it to move freely, then it should work O.K. Remember, that when you cut a hole in the tank's top for the sender unit to be placed there, it must be clean and flat to obtain a good gasket seal to prevent leaks. Be sure to use gasket material suitable for use on gas tanks, and sealant impervious to the effects of gasoline or oil. <br /><br />Don't rush, be safe, do a good job. Keep me posted. Have a good day.

 

[Omega-1]

Re: A few n00b questions...

P. S. with regard to placing the sender unit in the existing fuel line entry and uptake site, with the existing gauge, I would not disturb this apparatus. The siphon tube is in this location, and to remove the current gauge will not solve your problem for repositioning the fuel siphon tube, and may complicate the functional use of the tank.

 

[FireW0lf]

Re: A few n00b questions...

Thanks for the advice Omega-1. I'll go get a drainplug kit on Friday and install it straight away <br /><br />As for the sender, that can probably wait, as Summer is getting on and I'd like to get some use out of it rather than degassing and drilling tanks, replacing the dash etc. In fact I might even leave that until the weather turns - that way I have all the cold weather to get the boat done, and no time wasted on things like rebuilds when we could be tanning

 

[Omega-1]

Re: A few n00b questions...

FireWOLF,<br /><br />Have a good boating season. Off-season is a good time to do tedious repairs and upgrades on your boat. Good luck to you and your missus on safe boating, and pleasure of the sea.

 

[FireW0lf]

Re: A few n00b questions...

Thanks for all the help Omega-1<br /><br />Any idea where I might be able to identify the boat? I have images, which I can thumbnail in here, or would this be a wrong forum for that?

 

[sundog]

Re: A few n00b questions...

hi Firewolf. do you have any idea as the the age of the boat? Id double check your transom if its an older boat (more than 5-8yrs old). Most all used wood, some sandwiched the wood between fiberglass to help with rot, but they still sometimes did (cracked glass, pinholes, whatever allowed water to get in and rot wood...you couldnt tell by just looking). tap along your transom and listen for 'off' or 'hollow' sounds. also lock the motor up, then grab it by the lower unit adn rock it up and down and see if the transom deflects at all...it should feel like a rock, rather than a springboard. <br /><br />the fact that you dont have a drain plug may mean your boat is foamed...the idea was to seal the bilge so no water could get down there, and prvide floatation. Id install the drain anyway, and youll find out if its foamed. if it is, and the foam is dry, just install the plug and forget about it. but if the foam is wet (which it is a lot of the time) you may have to get under the floorboards and remove the old foam and re-foam/re-seal the boat (if you want to). lots of good advice on this forum. <br /><br />Good luck!

 

[sundog]

Re: A few n00b questions...

also, spend some time on www.fiberglassics.com hunting around. great site for finding out about older boats. you might recognise yours.