SabreCraft Restoration.

[RyanB]

Hi everyone,<br /><br />I am a total greenhorn to the boating thing, but I have always liked them. Recently, I talked my father into giving me his 24' SabreCraft boat. It had been sitting outside for 6 years and the motor was frozen.<br /><br />I've since towed it home, gave it a good washing and got rid of the massive amount of Moss and other outside debris that it collected. I've ripped out everything (Mostly). The only thing left is the floorboard and fuel tanks on either side.<br /><br />I doubt I'll be able to get new fuel tanks and since the current ones have a major amount of rust i'd rather not trust them to last alot longer, so I'll fab some up.<br /><br />One of my concerns is the Stringers. I've been reading stuff here for a while and understand that they will rot out and whatnot. The floorboar (1/2" Plywood that appears to have been glassed) seems very solid. There is a slight bubble in the floor at the center of the boat.<br /><br />Now, the engine mounts appear to sit on stringers, however they are completely glassed over. I'll try to provide a pic soon.<br /><br />Is there anyone that is familiar with SabreCraft boats? I can find VERY little info on them. Would all the stringers be glassed over and possibly have protected them from rot? Would there be floatation foam under the flooring?<br /><br />I am hesitant to start ripping up the floor as I have never done fibreglass work before.. And well tearing into the floor scares me. <br /><br />So anyone around who has had a SabreCraft boat before and know how well they were constructed?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />~Ryan

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Here is a link to information on Sabre Craft Boats:<br /> http://fiberglassics.com/sabrecraft/ <br /><br />Here is a link to a Sabre Craft brochure (note- additional brochures also available on the same site):<br /> http://fiberglassics.com/sabrecraft/brochure.asp <br /><br />Here is a link to the Coast Guard's information on the last owner/manufacturer of Sabre Craft:<br /> http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic_detail.aspx?id=AMM <br /><br />Important note: On the above brochure you will see the dealer name "McCuddy's of Portland, Oregon" stamped on it. They are still in business. I would bet McCuddy's and/or another boat dealer has someone around who knows how SabreCraft boats were built. Try those sources.<br /><br />I have seen used Sabre Craft boats show up from time to time on the Portland and Seattle Craigslist.com "boats for sale" section. I will look to see if I can find another owner out there for you who might have some knowledge on this and get back to you soon.

 

[RyanB]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Thanks EZ! So far, the links to the fiberglassics site is the only info I had found so far.<br /><br />None of the boats in the ads there resemble mine. The one I have is quite large and has a mini cabin.<br /><br />~Ryan

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Ryan,<br />I found a link to a group of Sabrecraft owners that might be helpful. Some of them discuss doing a makeover on their boat and give more history on it.<br /><br /><br /> http://www.goboatingamerica.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=reply;f=1;t=003580

 

[RyanB]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Thanks again EZ. I read that thread and was surprised to find out I may have foam stringers. I guess there is nothing left but to rip up the floor. Better safe then sorry right? That thread is from back in 04 so I doubt any og them monitor it anymore. Nice find tho!<br /><br />Here is my SabreCraft when I 1st got it home...<br /><br />

 

[RyanB]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

And here it is with some elbow grease applied...<br /><br />

 

[RyanB]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

By the way. Please dont mind the stump! haha. I've since replaced it with something more appropriate... <grin><br /><br />One of my earlier questions on the stringers I was talking about the motor mounts being attached directly to one. (Attached Image)<br /><br />Is this actually a stringer? I'm a fraid to drill a hole in it to find out if it is wood or foam inside. But being covered like that kinda guarentee's that even if it was wood it woldnt be rotten?<br /><br />

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

The engine mounts look like they are fastened to the two center stringers that most likely run forward under the deck towards the front of the boat.<br /><br />I'm not sure if I understood your engine/stringer comment: <br /><br />" But being covered like that kinda guarentee's that even if it was wood it woldnt be rotten?"<br /><br />Even fiberglass covered wood can rot if water or moisture has seeped or wicked its way into any portion of the stringer. Fiberglass boats are noted for this problem.<br /><br />Check out this link to an example of a man who checked under his fiberglass for rot:<br /><br /> http://www.classicmako.com/projects/ayala/ayala5.htm <br /><br />I'd unscrew the engine mount bolts to check them out and to see what kind of material they are screwed into. Hopefully the engine mount screw holes are in dry, sound material. You could do also do some test holes in areas that are soft or bouncy that you suspect might be a problem. Remember to always replug your test holes with resin to seal them if they check out ok.<br /><br />Ryan, check out these Mako boat owners who are restoring their boats with detailed photo logs and comments as they replace floors, transoms, stringers, etc.:<br /><br /> http://www.classicmako.com/projects.htm <br /><br />Just reading through what they are doing and why will give you a quick idea of what to look for plus show you how to fix it.

 

[RyanB]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Wow! Lots of good info there EZ. Well, I finally got the nerve to cut up my floors and of course it is a good thing I did.<br /><br />I'll have to post a picture. It's kinda hard to describe. But under the 1/2 plywood there are "cells" that are full of foam. And the foam is completely saturated. So badly that if I push on it water comes bubbling out. The interesting thing is the stringers are extremely strong. The only way I have been able to get the flooring up is to use a hammer and a wedge and drive the wedge between the stringers and the floorboard.<br /><br />There doesnt appear to be any way for these cells to drain. The floorboard is/was glued to the top of the stringers so it looks like water was never meant to get into each cell as it seems it should ahve been sealed off. However I have exposed 6 cells so far, all full with saturated foam. So, I need to figure out how the water got in each one. Hard to think it just seeped through the plywood which looks to have been sealed as well.<br /><br />At this point I'll continue to rip up the flooring and see how it looks through the rest of the boat, but my previous thought that the Transom is ok may be in error. Replacing the transom in such a large boat is probably beyond my skills. I get different "thuds" when hitting it with a hammer in different spots but havent found any soft area yet. Then again, my flooring felt very solid but was rotten on the bottom.<br /><br />Anyhow, thanks for the replies EZ. Much appreciated.<br /><br />~Ryan

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Ryan,<br />Your older boat may be more structurally sound than many of the newer, modern boats on the water today. It had more fiberglass and resin vs. today's boats that use less fiberglass and more "core composite materials" in order to decrease weight and costs of construction.<br /><br />Wherever a screw, staple or hole entered into your deck area water could have leaked in, under your deck and rot spores love moisture, warmth and darkness. The spores quickly spread through moist, untreated wood like the roots of a fast growing tree. Dry wood will not allow rot to occur. Dry wood, treated with a penetrating resin to keep water out is the best measure to prevent rot, but as soon a your drill, screw or staple into it, you've created an area where moisture can enter past the resin seal.<br /><br />Ideally, boats should have a 100% sealed off, self-bailing deck which keeps moisture from entering underneath the deck where it is trapped and causes high humidity which promotes potential rot. But as you can see on the Mako rehab website I sent you, there are hundreds of ways moisture is finding its way into the wood of boats. <br /><br />You'll be frustrated once you learn how the water got in under your deck because it would have taken only a little more time, thought and care during construction to prevent the problem to begin with. Folks who replace their rotted decks, transoms and stringers without understanding how the water got to them in the first place will have to repeat replacing them again in the future.<br /><br /> http://www.yachtsurvey.com/preventing_rot_in_encapsulated_wood.htm <br /><br />Luckily, you'll be able to take advantage of all of the rot repair knowledge gained by others who have done similar repairs on their boats. By learning what they did you can avoid all of their mistakes and do it right the first time. <br /><br />Many rehabbers are now making their boat's structural members even stronger (i.e. -transoms, stringers, decks) in order to take advantage of today's increased horsepower engines. And many are attempting not to repeat the original manufacturer's previous mistakes by properly drilling, sealing, reinforcing and mounting all of their engines, hardware and accessories so that future leaks don't occur.<br /><br />One thing I learned at the Mako site is that a good way to keep moisture from entering the transom and deck wood cores is to drill any required holes slightly larger than the bolt or screw that will use it. They are then filling the larger hole with resin and finally redrilling it to the right size. This method prevents moisture from leaking into the wood at the sides of the hole. For further protection, they are caulking and sealing these same holes with marine grade sealing caulk which is specifically designed to prevent water from entering around any screw or bolt holes. After all the work they went to fix their boats, they don't want to repeat the original manufacturer's same stupid mistakes.

 

[RyanB]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Well I managed to get alot of the flooring up. The foam below was drenched. Pushing on it cause water to bubble up quite a bit.<br /><br />You can see my progress below (link in sig)in a simple page I threw up. In the last pictures you can see where I've left a lip of wood around the edges. How exactly should I remove that? It's fiberglassed into the sides of the boat. Use an angle grinder and try to carefully cut through the glass to the wood and then "pull really hard" ? <br /><br />Apparently my sig didnt show. The page is http://www.stormseeker.org/projects/Boat <br /><br />I'll be drilling into the stringers to see what kinda condition they are in. One of the things I was wondering about is when I go to put all this back together, should I forget the foam and drill some holes between the stringers and the bilge to allow water to escape? From looking at the design though it looks liek water was never meant to get under the flooring. It was glued and screwed to the stringers.

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

That will be a nice boat when you get it back together. It sure looks like it was originally built to be seaworthy and I could see it taking lots of salmon off the Oregon coast. <br /><br />I'm sure you're right that it was not intended by Sabre Craft for any water to be getting under the deck floor and soaking the foam and stringers.<br /><br />From what I've have read, water finds its way under decks through cracks or holes purposefully drilled into the hull, transom, deck floor and/or top decks in order to mount motors, seats, wiring, plumbing, and other accessories, but they were not properly sealed in order to prevent leaks.<br /><br />Water might also enter from the bilge or hull areas through cracks or holes that you can't readily see. It only takes one small, steady leak to fill that area up over a prolonged period of time.<br /><br />Given all of the deck rot problems everyone is having, I've often thought that it might be better to have a deck that you could seal off when out boating but later on be able to open up to dry it out if any water had leaked in. <br /><br />This would prevent hidden moisture from accumulating. The deck could be divided into sections that are fastened down and sealed off with some type of gasket lip around their edges. Pre-cut foam flotation blocks could be made so that they were removable when you wanted access below decks.<br /><br />I've even wondered, if you did attempt to build a water-tight, sealed off deck, why couldn't you still have some sort of ability to check for moisture and to pipe and circulate fresh, dry, air underneath the deck, just to insure that moisture could not accumulate? <br /><br />After a day of boating you could simply turn on an electric blower that would circulate air underneath the deck to dry it out. You could also have a built-in moisture meter to determine if you had any moisture and when to shut the blower off. The blower could be on an automatic timer or rigged to turn on when the humidity got above a certain level. I have a dehumdifier built in to my house furnace system. <br /><br />This is not, new age rocket science and certainly a lot less expensive than replacing rotted decks and stringers. <br /><br />Ryan, I don't live to far north of liberal Oregon so when you get ready to go fishing, and if there are any salmon left when you are finally done, I am expecting a holler from you!<br /><br />Great website...looking forward to more updates!

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Ryan, check out this alternative replacement motor for your boat:<br /><br />The Gas V-8: An Endangered Species? <br /><br />It's a competitive world, and marine engines are subject to the principle of survival of the fittest. Consider the gasoline V-8. If the engineering team at Steyr Motors continues on its present track, this venerable engine may soon become extinct. The Austrian engine builder recently unveiled a 250-hp diesel in-line 6 designed expressly to go head-to-head with 5.0L and 5.7L V-8 gas inboards and sterndrives. <br /><br />Turbocharged, intercooled and featuring two-stage fuel injectors, the new Steyr diesel builds more horsepower per cubic inch than should be legal. At the same time, it sips fuel. Atypical for a diesel, it's not particularly heavy, thanks to its high alloy, lightweight castings. Smoke and fumes are virtually nonexistent. The engine mates to a wide variety of transmissions, including direct-drive, horizontal, eight-degree down angle and 12-degree V-drive. It's also an appropriate choice for MerCruiser Bravo One and Two, and Volvo Penta Duoprop sterndrives. www.steyr-motors.com.<br /><br />Locally in the NW Steyr Marine Engines are sold by:<br /><br />Channel Marine Services<br />Mr. Gregory Van Sickle LOCATION<br />25500 NW St. Helens Rd<br />Portland, OR 97231<br /><br />MAIL ADDRESS<br />POBox 1126<br />Scappoose, OR 97056<br /><br />seayou@channelmarineservices.com<br /> (503)543-2377

 

[RyanB]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

EZ,<br /><br />One of the biggest interests for me was to get this boat going for some Rock fishing so I am surely going to be taking it to the sea to do some nice fishin! So, you are certainly welcome to come along!<br /><br />I am trying to see if I can finish it by summer of next year. My problem at this point is I probably have 2-3 more weekends of clean up inside the boat. Then it will be time to put it back together and that means lotsa fibreglass. However the temperatures are getting lower every week. So, I'll have to wait for that rare weekend where it is warm over the next 5 months.<br /><br />I've been talking with a friend here at work that used to make Fiberglass boats and whatnot, getting a few idea's here and there.<br /><br />My latest idea is a suggestion from him in using "Ethafoam". Not sure if I spelled that right. But it is a closed cell foam that comes in blocks. It can be cut with a electric turkey cutter very easilly he said. So, I am thinking that if I replace all that pour in foam with the Ethafoam I wont have to worry so much about it getting waterlogged again right? So, to take that further, I was also considering using Sea-Cast (Self leveling) and just pour over the top of the Ethefoam and the stringers and get me about a 1/2 inch thick floor. The original floor was only 1/4 inch thick and was solid as hell.<br /><br />So, as long as my stringers check out, that is where I am thinking of going but nothing set in stone yet either.<br /><br />Right now, the idea is to dig all the foam out, clean it up good and then fill the currently foamed area's with colored water and look for leaks. After that is done then drain it all, then drill into the stringers to find out what is inside them and thier condition. If they are rotted wood I expect to cut the top's off the stringers, dig out the wood and probably do the sea-cast pour in for new stringers. Then re-glass the tops of them and proceed with the above mentioned floor.<br /><br />Thanks for the info on the motor. I've talked with a few local boating suppliers about re-powering my boat. It's a bit too expensive at the moment but, I certainly want to do it in the future. I've secured a boat motor in the meantime to replace my current one. I expect it to get me through a few seasons before re-powering the boat.<br /><br />As always, thanks for the positive feedback and all your suggestions!<br /><br />~Ryan

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

I didn't think Seacast, which is heavy, was meant to be used as a floor, just transoms and stringers. Better check on that. <br /><br />I understand about the motor costs. It was easy for me to suggest spending your money on a new fancy one though. (LOL)!

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Ryan,<br />Check out this iboat link to a project boat by iboat member Boomyal that was really done right...<br /><br /> http://www.shareaproject.com/pages/projectTut,p,92,00.html

 

[RyanB]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Well I ressurected that old thread on the GoBoating site and got a few replies.<br /><br />One of them had this gem!!<br /><br />

<br /><br />That is exactly what I have. Very interesting. I am hoping the person who posted it can get a better scan. The only thing I worry about now is if the foam inside the stringers is also saturated in my boat. If so, I'm not sure what to do. Just leave it? It would seem that if I cut the tops off the stringers to remove the foam, structural integrity would be severely comprimised...<br /><br />On a side note, ive looked through the restoration for Boomyal. Very interesting, but from what I have been able to ascertain is that foam, once wet will unlikely release the water it has soaked up. So, while that drainage system he put in seems really nice, it also seems like a way for more water to be able to come back up fro mthe bilge and get into the foam, this saturating it again and it could take months and months to release the water that only a few days of heave usage might saturate it with? dunno. Just speculation of course.

 

[EZLoader]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

Ryan, <br />Great find! By looking at the stringers in the brochure it looks like the fiberglass was engineered to be quite strong and that the foam added to the stringers provided little, if anything to your hull strength. The brochure says, "Web Core, no wood stringers to rot, no wood stringer to crack." They built your boat hell for stout!<br /><br />It would be ideal if you could remove all of the wet foam in the stringers with just a few access holes in order to maintain their structural integrity. <br /><br />Then, if you choose to not put foam back in, you could easily pour SeaCast to fill inside and add strength to the stringers. The downside is that it will also add some new weight to the boat and may not even be necessary because they are already quite strong. You should be able to determine how much space you will be filling and how much more Seacast will cost and weigh before committing to it.<br /> <br />You raise a good question about Boomyal's foam if it gets wet again. He did provide for water by making special channels for any underdeck water to flow out rather than just sit there and collect near the foam but I think the important part was he was extra cautious that his final deck was completely sealed and water tight and making the channel system just an extra precaution. The foam adds not only floatation but provides some support to the deck and hull plus sound and vibration proofing.<br /><br />I still like the idea of having watertight tight deck hatches so that once I'm back home I can easily check under the deck and let some fresh air flow into that space if any moisture got in. <br />You'd want these deck hatches to be designed so that they don't weaken the deck or it structural support of the hull.

 

[swimmin' for shore]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

I'm surprised that Boom didn't hit this up, but that's not the way that the foam is supposed to work. The reason that foam soaks up water is from constant exposure. That's the reason for Boomyals drainage system. By providing drainage for any water, or even condensation, he allows the foam to release moisture, or "breathe".

 

[smalldog]

Re: SabreCraft Restoration.

I have the same boat and I have the floor opened up...I am putting in new transom wood ,stingers and frames and deck. The web core is foam filled and the foam was open celled... it absorbed water and the boat is way too heavy.