Crimp large wire

Realgun · Mar 6, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

Asprin bottle empty time to fill chamber of gun and shoot myself

All I wanted to do was put a wire and a terminal together. All it has to do is meet the following7 Criteria 1. So it will not pull apart. 2. So it will coduct electricity. 3. Not corode for a few years. 4. Not burn up the boat. 5. Meet the USCG and NMMA regs. 6. As I stated NO SOLDER! 7. And the cheaper the better. I am a cheap BaoT@#$ and proud of it.

I am not sending the boat to the moon. All I want is a new cable properly installed and looking good.

ziggy · Mar 6, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

i been readin the above. i have need of replaceing cable ends and cables too. think i have a 5' of awg4 for a ground wire to the batt. 3/8 lug to the block, auto clamp terminal at batt. and 5' of awg6 for a positive lead. a 3/8 lug to the solinoid and a 3/8 hardware store ring to the poisitive ( oh yeah, and a little electric tape too). yikes. ok, i think i want awg 4 all around. maine duty. tinned. shrink wrapped. why woud i not just get some factory crimped, tinned, maine heavy duty wires from some manufacture and be done with it. with any crimp or solder i can do, can i exeed a manufactrured wire? maybe this whole post is about doing better than some manufaturerer. if that's the case i will do my own too. i do wonder if a bolt in a vise is a coast gaurd approved method of crimping though. i just want good solid marine duty wires and ends so they give me the best chance i got when i'm alone on the water.....

crab bait · Mar 6, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

would you really want to send your boat to the moon without soldering a crimped joint.. i mean really..

Realgun · Mar 7, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

would you really want to send your boat to the moon without soldering a crimped joint.. i mean really..

Crabby I am going to feed you to the trigger fishes.

I understand solder but really it does not belong on my boat, yours maybe but not mine. I have seen a hammer crimper and basically it has a V shaped spot for the wire and lug and a V shaped pumch that hits the wire and lug and FUSES them together. Seems like the 1/4 bolt head will do about the same thing. Then you can give it a yank to see if it moves. If it does not then slide the shrink wrap over, flame it, and be done!

all thumbs · Mar 7, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

Just to add my 2 cents. I'am a power and light guy. The thing that is important to us is a clean tight connection. we can have up to 600 amps running through our connections. Problems we have is over heating due to loose or dirty connection. Also dis-similar metals connected without a penetrox inhibitor. All connections are made with compression. I'am not too sure about a bolt and vice method. The type crimpers we use compress equally 360 degrees around the lug.I once used a crimper[ similar to the picture Dunaruna posted ] to crimp a lug on the starter for my truck.Then wrapped it with rubber tape. That was in 1976 . I ran it that way till 1996, no problem.

Realgun · Mar 8, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

hen wrapped it with rubber tape. That was in 1976 . I ran it that way till 1996, no problem.

You mean it only lasted 20 years? Should have soldered it.

Oh man I know there are going to be coments on that 1.

I keep telling people Solder is not needed but keep getting the same reply. Crimp then solder. MY ? is why? Answer because they are to stubborn to know that the crimp is fine! And thats is All that is required. No shrink wrap not tape just a crimp! I read the rules. and yes I know about the 1.5 times bigger with battery cable 1.

all thumbs · Mar 8, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

The crimp was still working. The truck died of old age helped along by teenage drivers.

jlinder · Mar 8, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

I hear people make hard statements that you must solder. But the standards, developed by professionals over years of experience and analysis of why connections fail only calls for crimp. (Of couse I may be wrong. If so, could someone point it out with specific examples?) Tons of people out there with tons of experience. I would be interested to hear from people with actual case histories. Can someone point to an experience they had with a crimped connection sealed with heat shrink or equivelent that had a problem? (bad crimp jobs don't count)

jlinder · Mar 11, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

Not trying to be smart, but there have been no replies from anyone citing experience with non-soldered crimp connections that failed (sealed with heat shrink or equivilent). How about experience from anyone with non-soldered but sealed crimp only connections that have stood the test of time. Again, lots of people on this forum, lots of experience. It would be nice to hear examples.

Richard Petersen · Mar 11, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

We are running out of computer space.

No electrical code anywhere in the USA calls for or allows solder anywhere. Wire nuts or compression.

I know the big fork lift truck batteries have their cables soldered at both ends with a factory connector fitted. Only exception I know of.

Realgun · Mar 11, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

Richard there is the standard for boats that you can solder only the battery cables if some dimention is 1.5 x another I don't know cause I don't solder!

Solder shall not be the sole means of the mechanical connection in any circuit. Exception: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor (E9.16.K8)

Got that from the Ancor website tecnical stuff! Can we have 150 posts.

Realgun · Mar 11, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

I swear 1 more post and.......... Where is my morphine

demsvmejm · Mar 11, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

Here's another one of those chest-thumping posts again where all we get is opinions, and little expertise. I agree with crab bait. He's a professional in the light & power industry. I am a State & ASE certified automobile mechanic, with expertise and certifications in electrical. I was also factory trained to work on electric forklifts, so I think I would qualify as an expert professional when dealing with DC voltage. The crimp provides a mechanical connection, the solder only inproves it and seals the connection. When dealing with the forklifts using batteries up to 60V, 1/0 arc welder sized cables and amperage of 500A+, we always soldered the connections. If we didn't we came back and fixed our mistake , very soon. Like any other repair, it has to be done right. Big job = big tool (torch). If you aren't able to do it right yourself, don't settle for good enough!!! Have a professional do the job for you. When I make any connection on the outside of a car you will never see me using a crimp connector, not evena shrink connector. I always use a self-soldering, self-sealing connector. I have NEVER had a "comeback" And for one good reason, the job was done RIGHT, with solder. So there's my professional two cents, crimp if you must, but always solder the connection. And even though the solder wicks, turning then lug upright in the vise when soldering will make a neater, cleaner job.

demsvmejm · Mar 11, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

Originally posted by Jack L: Not trying to be smart, but there have been no replies from anyone citing experience with non-soldered crimp connections that failed (sealed with heat shrink or equivilent). How about experience from anyone with non-soldered but sealed crimp only connections that have stood the test of time. Again, lots of people on this forum, lots of experience. It would be nice to hear examples.

I've seen many mushy green "crimped with heatshrink tubing" connections. And I've seen many heatshrink tubes that later split from subsequent heat and further shrinkage. Not many connections where the heatshrink protected the connection from the humidity present during the process. Soldering boils away the moisture. I've peeled back factory crimp and heatshrink battery cable connections 3-5 years later to find discolored but not severely corroded cable, to be fair. But it comes down to this... It's your boat, do what you want. You'll have to pay the price. If you don't do it right the first time, when will you have the time to do it a second time? Some sunny Sunday afternoon, 5 miles from the launch?

Realgun · Mar 12, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

Ok David L whats the right way?

jlinder · Mar 13, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

David, You said

But it comes down to this... It's your boat, do what you want. You'll have to pay the price. If you don't do it right the first time, when will you have the time to do it a second time? Some sunny Sunday afternoon, 5 miles from the launch?

While I agree with your statement about doing it right the first time, that is not what I am asking. I want to know why you say solder is the right way to do it, backed by examples of what happens when you don't. I also have seen cheap heat shrink that cracks and pulls back and exposes the connection. I don't count this as part of a correctly done cripm only connection. Let me restate my question: I would like to hear from anyone who has had a problem with a properly crimped connection that is properly sealed with adhesive coated heat shrink So far I have gotten no responses. Let me ask the converse: I would like to hear from anyone who has a properly crimped connection that is properly sealed with adhesive coated heat shrink that has stood the test of time. I'm looking for experience, that's the only true answer.

18rabbit · Mar 14, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

Originally posted by Jack L: I would like to hear from anyone who has had a problem with a properly crimped connection that is properly sealed with adhesive coated heat shrink So far I have gotten no responses. Let me ask the converse: I would like to hear from anyone who has a properly crimped connection that is properly sealed with adhesive coated heat shrink that has stood the test of time. I'm looking for experience, that's the only true answer. [/QB]

I have a US Navy hydrographic survey launch. It was in service for 10-years in oceans all over this planet, either on missions or sitting exposed on the deck of a mother ship. It has two 24-volt systems, one for the vessel and one for the mission electronics. Two Motorola 24-volt, 100-amp alternators fed thru a pair of Newmar 150-amp filters to keep 600+ lbs of AGM batteries alive. All vessel electronics were redundant, mission electronics were not. There were 14 battery cables from 4-ft to 16-ft in length, and 6 battery jumpers about 18-inches in length. The manufacturing date printed on the cable pre-dates the boats build date by 2-years. All of the battery cables and jumpers are AWG 4/0, crimped lugs, sealed with adhesive heat shrink. After ten years of military use, continuously exposed to marine conditions, there was not a single spec of corrosion anywhere on any of the cables or the FORTY crimped lugs. The only problems were a couple lug rings growing green fuzzy where they contacted the battery post and deteriorating at that area only, and another lug deteriorated behind a battery switch but it wasnt secured so the arcing took its toll on that lug. The battery cables with crimped lugs attached were reinstalled and are still in use. Yes, crimping works. Yes, it is reliable. No, it does not necessarily lead to corrosion. Edit: the cables and crimped lugs, sealed with adhesive heat shrink, are now in their 14th year of continuous exposure to a marine environment, without any signs of corrosion.

Richard Petersen · Mar 14, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

99.99% of all marine and auto wire connections are crimped and they all survive for years with no attention.

jlinder · Mar 14, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

18rabbit, Thank you. This is exactly what I am looking for. The solder vs. crimp only argument seems like it has been going on forever on this forum. It's nice to hear from experience. My opinion is simple - the standards call for crimp, and I have never seen a proper crimp fail. The real problem is not the lack of solder, but bad crimp jobs and improper sealing. I have seen too many crimp jobs done by pliers where the wire could be pulled right out of the crimp, or where the seal was done with tape or something else.. Any one else with real life examples?

Realgun · Mar 14, 2005

Re: Crimp large wire

18rabbit i got a carrot for ya.

Thank you that ends my experience in this endevor! When I crimp my wires properly and shrinkwrap it I will never think about them till I have to remove them to store the battery.

Crimp large wire

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