Which fuses should I use?

bprender

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Mar 25, 2005
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What fuses should be used for which devices?<br /><br />3 amp, 5 amp, or 10 amp for...<br /><br />lighting?<br />electronics (cd player, vhf radio)?<br />bilge?<br />other stuff i may be missing?<br /><br />Thanks guys.
 

dorchard

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Jul 19, 2005
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Re: Which fuses should I use?

This will all depend on the rated wattage of your equiment. In DC circuits, Watts = Volts * Amps.<br /><br />What you need to do is sum the wattages of all of the equipment on any one fuse, and then run it through the formula. If we algebraically rearrange the formula, we get Amps = (Watts / Volts). If we assume that your system is running on a 12 volt (average) battery, we can change the formula to Amps = Watts/12. So divide the total circuit wattage by 12, and round up to the nearest conveninent fuse size.<br /><br /><br />Ex: Fuse that needs to operate 60 watts of equipment, Amps = 60/12, which equals 5. Use a 5 amp fuse. If you find that it blows too frequently, or in the case of a motor, under great load, you might want to up the value some.<br /><br />--Dan
 

crab bait

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Feb 5, 2002
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3,831
Re: Which fuses should I use?

for sensitive equipment,, the proper fuse is required.. but that equipment aways has it's own in-line fuse.. <br /><br />at the power panel,, your basicly want a fuse that's just going to protect the circut from mishap.. <br /><br />the most common fuse size is 10 amp.. factly,that's all that's in my panel.. rare that you'll need a heavier fuse.. <br /><br />i use all 10 amper's cause i only havta buy/keep/store/an find one size an one type
 

Silvertip

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Sep 22, 2003
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28,771
Re: Which fuses should I use?

There are very few devices on most in-shore boats that draw more than five amps. Even bilge pumps draw less than that. However, off-shore boats running radars, and devices with higher current draw would require higher amperage fuses. The manuals for each device will tell you what the supply line is to be fused at. There is no "standard".
 

MrBigStuff

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Aug 7, 2004
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Re: Which fuses should I use?

Originally posted by bprender:<br /> What fuses should be used for which devices?<br /><br />3 amp, 5 amp, or 10 amp for...<br /><br />lighting?<br />electronics (cd player, vhf radio)?<br />bilge?<br />other stuff i may be missing?<br /><br />Thanks guys.
Fuses primarily protect wiring, not devices. If a fault occurs in a device or along the wiring run, the fuse blows to protect from overloading the remaining circuit.<br /><br />The fuse should be chosen based on the wiring capacity/specifications and derated according to the usage of the circuit.
 

Realgun

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Jul 31, 2003
Messages
2,484
Re: Which fuses should I use?

Fuses are used to protect the wiring not the device attached to it. The reson you down rate the fuse is to possibly save the device from causing a fire.<br /><br />So basically you want to do as Crabie does however I use 5 ampers unless it draws more then I go 10 I keep an extra 5amp (3) and 10amp (3) in the boat just in case. <br /><br />If you want to get fancy you can use breakers instead of fuses but that can get real expensive.
 

amirm

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May 7, 2005
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Re: Which fuses should I use?

The advice to size the fuse based on protecting the wire is not wise. Almost all electronic equipment is designed to have a fuse protect that piece of equipment from catching fire. Putting in a larger fuse will surely cause major grief one day. The fuse must be sized to the equipment need, not the wire size.<br /><br />Let me give you an example. All VHF radios have a diode across the power leads to protect against the user wiring the leads in reverse. Without the diode, the reverse voltage would destroy the entire radio. With the diode though, the reverse polarity causes the diode to short out and as such, the voltage stays near zero (really .6 volts), avoiding damage to the radio. However, the diode is only rated at a few watts and if the reverse voltage is maintained across its leads for too long, it would heat up to the point of potentially starting a fire and almost assured lead to distruction of the diod in the shorted out state (i.e. the radio will no longer work even if you properly wire it up). The inline fuse for the radio plays a critical role here by blowing up once it faces the current accross the diode and hence, there is no chane of the diode heating up.<br /><br />In the above example, the fuse would be rated at say, 6 amps. If you try to protect the 16 guage wire leading to the radio with a 15 amp wire for example, you would surely lead to shorting out the above diode and major risk of fire due to heat generated. I can't tell you have many VHF radios I have repaired that had completely charred the circuit board after it shorted out.<br /><br />The proper way to wire such a circuit is to use a circuit break to protect the wire going to a fusebox. Then use the appropriate fuses to protect each electronic device. Alternatively, you can use inline fuses but that gets messy as there is no convenient way to find them all should something go wrong.<br /><br />And as been mentioned, you must look up the correct fuse size for each device. For lamps though, you don't have the above issues above as there is little chance of them shorting out so protecting the wire should be OK.<br /><br /><br />Amir
 

Ralph 123

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Jun 24, 2003
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Re: Which fuses should I use?

It would blow any fuse in you example Amir as the current would be the short circuit current. V=I*R R=0 (close to it for a forward biased diode) I= short circuit current = pop goes the fuse... now the question is the time it takes a 6amp fuse to blow vs the time it would take the 15 amp fuse to blow which is probably so small as to not make a difference... Now, if the leads of the device are smaller than the leads your attaching, and for some reason the device is drawing more current that those wires can handle safely and your fuse allows that level of current w/o blowing, then you've got a problem...<br /><br />
What is the CPD protection against?<br /><br />Prevention of wire conductor overheating and resultant burning of the wire insulation is the primary reason to install a fuse or circuit breaker. In some cases they are also installed to protect electrical or electronic equipment from damage.<br /><br />What size CPD is required?<br /><br />The short answer is that the CPD should be rated to open at an amperage that is greater than the maximum load the circuit will carry and smaller than the rated amperage capacity of the wire in the circuit. We recommend choosing a size as close to, but not greater than, the amperage capacity of the wire<br /><br />
http://www.bluesea.com/Article_Detail.asp?ID=121&Page=0&section_Id=140
 

amirm

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May 7, 2005
Messages
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Re: Which fuses should I use?

OK, Ralph, maybe that example was not the best one to use here :) . But the example would still stand if someone protected the wire with a thermal breaker which has a trip time of 1 second or more. In this case, you will be driving some 170 watts into the diode for a full second, rather than 70 watts for a fraction of a second wit the fuse. A 15 amp breaker would be more than compliant with the code to protect the wire, but clearly not a good idea in this case.<br /><br />I could also go on about many other scenarios where something could internally short out and use up above 6 amps but not more than 15 amps. And the increased heat generated could easily mean the difference between a fire and not.<br /><br />The section quoted from bluesea btw, is not applicable to the point I am making. What they are saying is factually correct in keeping the boat wiring from catching on fire and preventing false trips. They say nothing about what could happen to the equipment itself, should it fault. <br /><br />If the idea of putting the same fuse on every electronic gear were correct, then why on earth would every equipment manufacturer spec a different value? Surely they know more about the equipment they have designed than bluesea :) .<br /><br />One of the benefits of working on the boat yourself is doing things right. Put the proper fuse in and sleep easy. It only costs a few dollars.<br /><br />Amir
 

Ralph 123

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Jun 24, 2003
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3,983
Re: Which fuses should I use?

Let's stick with fuses. When you have a dead short, like in your crowbar example, the fuse is going to blow in a fraction of a second:<br />
20521.jpg
<br /><br />Unless the diode is really poorly spec'd or marginal to begin with, I can't see it making a difference. Worse case you'll have to replace the diode but I can't remotely conceive of it catching on fire. That goes for any true short circuit condition.<br /><br />The advice BlueSea gives is:<br />"the [fuse] should be rated to open at an amperage that is greater than the maximum load the circuit will carry and smaller than the rated amperage capacity of the wire in the circuit."<br /><br />So, if you follow their advice and size a fuse to a piece of equipment that draws 6A, all they are saying is put in a fuse >6A but less than the maximum the leads can carry safely (You size your fuse to the smallest wire in the circuit which is often the size of the leads on the equipment not the wire from the source.)<br /><br />I am certainly not advocating using all the same sized fuses. I use the smallest required based on circuit usage and the size of the wire. For electronics, I use the same fuse that came with the equipment.<br /><br />If you're using slow blowing thermal breakers without knowing exactly what you're doing, you'll get what you deserve :)
 

amirm

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May 7, 2005
Messages
176
Re: Which fuses should I use?

Ralph, your last two paragraphs are exactly what I am saying so looks like we are arguing when we have already agreed :) . Net, net, you want to protect the equipment with the recommended fuse, and not just the breaker/fuse that protects the wire (a thermal breaker can easily protect the wiring and not the device).<br /><br />BTW, my crowbar example was for simplicity. Take a shorted out transistor inside an amp with the current through a resistor that would blow the fuse at 6 amps and not 15 amps and you have a prefect scenario for cooking a device. Just look at the schematics for such devices and you see warnings to replace the resistors with the same type to avoid fires. These things get very hot and are designed to blow the rated fuse, but not higher ones.<br /><br />BTW, the stuff that I say is not theoretical. While I don't claim to know everything, I am an electrical engineer and repaired hundreds electronic devices from VHF radios to home electronics while putting myself through college :) . I have seen simple failures and catastrophic ones. The latter was many times accompanied with a much larger than intended fuse that was replaced by the user....<br /><br />Anyway, I am sure we are boring the rest of the folks here with such a deep dive. So let's declare peace and move on :) .<br /><br />Amir
 

MrBigStuff

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Aug 7, 2004
Messages
497
Re: Which fuses should I use?

Originally posted by amir:<br /> The advice to size the fuse based on protecting the wire is not wise<br />Amir
Next time read the entire post- carefully. Mine says to size the fuse based on the wiring AND DERATE BASED ON USAGE.<br /><br />Ideally, the main fuse should be rated for the wiring. Each individual load should have its own protection.
 
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