2008 338 Four Winns

Boaterdan278michigan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 18, 2025
Messages
97
We have an accepted offer on a 2008 Four Winns 338 vista. The boat has Volvo DPS-A outdrives. During survey we took oil samples from the drives. Readings showed high levels of iron and small amounts of water in each drive. Just trying to decide how serious this is and a reasonable path forward.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4930.jpeg
    IMG_4930.jpeg
    166.5 KB · Views: 7

alldodge

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
44,590
Unless there is something else like there was a lot of filings on the magnet I wouldn't worry about it. Don't know when the lube was last changed and given these are gears meshing together the iron would be higher than on a motor
 

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
14,477
I did an oil analysis on my Cobra dog clutch drive about 10 years ago out of curiosity and it also tested high on iron but no water. And there was never anything but a tiny bit of fuzz on the magnet of the drain plug.
I don't think the high iron is as much of an issue as it would be in an engine oil analysis as all dodge above said as long as you don't see a lot of filings/chunks on the magnet; but water suggests that the drives should get a pressure/vacuum test. Could be as simple as a bad gasket on a drain/fill plug or propshaft seal (common).
I recently had to replace the seal on the water pump driveshaft on my Cobra because of gradual water intrusion. That's the only seal I have had to replace on it in about 20 years!
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
19,539
I would inquire as to when the gear oil was last changed . . . if it has been a while, then the higher readings may be explained by such.

Did the surveyor comment on the look of the oil? Was anything abnormal noticed about the drives/shifting during the sea trial?

Keep in mind that the drives (and everything else) are 18 years old . . . It's not going to be perfect.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
19,539
Also, in your annual boat maintenance budgeting, plan on some repairs each year. My Formula 330 was 16 years old (740 hours) when I bought it. I did end up replacing seals after a few years. I also did some clutch maintenance when the drives were about 20 years old.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
19,539
In my Googling of outdrive oil analysis, the trend is a better indicator than a single snap-shot. Not many owners have the oils sampled very often, if at all, so a trend would be hard to establish.

Were the engines also sampled for oil analysis?

You may be best to change the oils and do a yearly sample, keeping track of the engine hours for each iteration.
 

Boaterdan278michigan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 18, 2025
Messages
97
In my Googling of outdrive oil analysis, the trend is a better indicator than a single snap-shot. Not many owners have the oils sampled very often, if at all, so a trend would be hard to establish.

Were the engines also sampled for oil analysis?

You may be best to change the oils and do a yearly sample, keeping track of the engine hours for each iteration.
Yes, we sampled both engines, both drives and the generator. The engine oil samples showed 2.5, 2.8 and 2.8 percent fuel in the generator, port and starboard engines. If you'd like, I'll upload the files.
 

Boaterdan278michigan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 18, 2025
Messages
97
Also, in your annual boat maintenance budgeting, plan on some repairs each year. My Formula 330 was 16 years old (740 hours) when I bought it. I did end up replacing seals after a few years. I also did some clutch maintenance when the drives were about 20 years old.
That is good advice. I understand that I'll need not replace or repair certain systems during my ownership. I'm trying to identify existing problems and negotiate off the price. At best these oil samples indicate a lack of proper maintenance. I just want to to as much as possible not to purchase a boat that immediately breaks down during boat season 2027.
 

Boaterdan278michigan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 18, 2025
Messages
97
Ask for a pressure test and vacuum test of the drives. One of the seals may be close to failing.
Thank you!
I would inquire as to when the gear oil was last changed . . . if it has been a while, then the higher readings may be explained by such.

Did the surveyor comment on the look of the oil? Was anything abnormal noticed about the drives/shifting during the sea trial?

Keep in mind that the drives (and everything else) are 18 years old . . . It's not going to be perfect.
Understood, we heard a strange whine at 2,000 to 2,500 rpm. Quite loud, but we thought it was the engines not being synchronized. It kind of sounded like a loud version of the 'strobe' sound you hear when engines run simultaneously at close but different rpm. If that makes sense.
 

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
14,477
I went back and looked at my Blackstone Labs result on my Cobra drive from 2015. Iron was 369 ppm water was zero. This was based on one season & I’ve always changed the oil at the end of each season. So depending on how long of a run those drives had on the same oil, it may or not be a problem. I would be a bit more concerned about water in the oil of the gen set & both engines. Did the dipstick/oil caps look milky at all? How were the wear metals on the engines?
 

redneck joe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
16,327
could water be condensation from just sitting around if it was a dock queen or on the hard for extended time?
 

Boaterdan278michigan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 18, 2025
Messages
97
I went back and looked at my Blackstone Labs result on my Cobra drive from 2015. Iron was 369 ppm water was zero. This was based on one season & I’ve always changed the oil at the end of each season. So depending on how long of a run those drives had on the same oil, it may or not be a problem. I would be a bit more concerned about water in the oil of the gen set & both engines. Did the dipstick/oil caps look milky at all? How were the wear metals on the engines?
Hopefully I didn't misrepresent
I went back and looked at my Blackstone Labs result on my Cobra drive from 2015. Iron was 369 ppm water was zero. This was based on one season & I’ve always changed the oil at the end of each season. So depending on how long of a run those drives had on the same oil, it may or not be a problem. I would be a bit more concerned about water in the oil of the gen set & both engines. Did the dipstick/oil caps look milky at all? How were the wear metals on the engines?
Hopefully I did not misrepresent. The water was in the drives only. Near as I could tell, about a teaspoon and a quarter. The engine had no water in the oil. They tested high on fuel in oil. From what I know, these owners started the boat, ran about a mile to their favorite cove, dropped the hook and hung out all day. So the engines barely got to operating temp. The owner only put 20 hours per year on engines for the two years they owned it.
 

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
14,477
If that's how they used the boat, short trips not running up on plane, the fuel dilution is not that unusual, I would make sure that the thermostats aren't sticking open and that they come up to normal temp as expected (160*F). Are the engines carbureted, throttle body injected, or multiport fuel injection? If carbureted, make sure the chokes open as expected. With the Holley carbs that Volvo used for a long time, if the electrical supply to the electric auto choke fails, it will fail closed, over-riching the mixture. For either injection system, you may have to have them scanned when running to find faults if they are in fact running too rich. The center electrode insulator of the spark plugs is a good guide to if an engine is running rich or lean
 

Boaterdan278michigan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 18, 2025
Messages
97
@Boaterdan278michigan . . . any updates on this? The lakes will be freezing in a couple of months :LOL:
Thank you for your interest and help. We signed a purchase agreement committing sellers to repair deficiencies relating to safe and mechanically sound boat. It was agreed that we would negotiate proper repair. Minor repairs, of which there were several, i agreed to repair. Major issues, namely a leaking power steering actuator, leaking tilt cylinder or motor, baldy damaged propellers, raw water pump bearing failure, high iron and water content in the drive fluid and recharging the onboard fire suppression needed to be credited off the purchase price. I assessed an allowance of just over $6,000.00, primarily parts cost with me providing labor. Sellers said, "We will send you your deposit check back". No good faith negotiation, just that. The boat was not worth all the minor issues, gelcoat repair plus the allowance.
 

Boaterdan278michigan

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Thread starter
Joined
Oct 18, 2025
Messages
97
If that's how they used the boat, short trips not running up on plane, the fuel dilution is not that unusual, I would make sure that the thermostats aren't sticking open and that they come up to normal temp as expected (160*F). Are the engines carbureted, throttle body injected, or multiport fuel injection? If carbureted, make sure the chokes open as expected. With the Holley carbs that Volvo used for a long time, if the electrical supply to the electric auto choke fails, it will fail closed, over-riching the mixture. For either injection system, you may have to have them scanned when running to find faults if they are in fact running too rich. The center electrode insulator of the spark plugs is a good guide to if an engine is running rich or lean
Thank you Lou. The boat purchase did not work out. Your advice is excellent. An aside, I remember a LouC from the old IFourwinns board, always good advice. Was that you?
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
19,539
Got it . . .

It looks like the boat was/is listed at $89,900 . . not sure what you were in for as an accepted offer. But, if it was reducing the selling price by $6K to essentially take it 'as is' . . . As a seller, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. :LOL:(y).

What I would not want to have to do is get all that stuff fixed in order to make the sale. There must have been some emotion about the deal on the part of the sellers. There was a broker (32 Marine) involved as well (right?)
 
Top