Getting rid of the relays

[tpenfield]

I have an actuator-driven seat at the stern of my boat. It is a wide back-to-back seat that can lay flat via the actuator.

The switch is at the helm and the wiring goes to a set of relays (2 of the 5-pin automotive style). When I replace the relays, they last for about 1 year. Then they don’t work anymore, so it ends up being repetitive replacement.

I’m thinking that it may be better to wire the actuator directly to the switch, by-passing the relays. I’m not sure what value the relays add, since the switch can probably handle the current.

Thoughts on doing this re-wiring?

 

[alldodge]

Thought about using heavier current relays?

 

[Scott Danforth]

the two relays are being used as a reversing circuit.

you need a contactor with a flyback suppression diode. the contactor is like $15. the diode is under $1

 

[tpenfield]

A contactor seems to be a heavy duty relay.

I think the regular relays are failing due to dampness in the electrical box, as well as infrequent use. Perhaps they are not 100% water proof . The drawing calls for an automotive relay, nothing special.

I’ll have to do some testing with my multi- meter.

 

[alldodge]

Is current ones sealed like these
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081LS2YJZ?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

 

[Lou C]

Painless wiring sells or used to sell relay bases with rubber insulation/water proofing pads, I’ll have to look at their site to see if they still sell them.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Do the relays have the socket with the seal? If so, they can be submerged as the installation is then IP67 compliant

Most likely the contacts are arc flashed over (the reason the suppression diode is used)

 

[Scott Danforth]

TE, Hella, and Bosch all sell sealed sockets

 

[tpenfield]

I literally use the actuator about 5 times during a season (when they are working). I don't recall if there is a connector face gasket/seal, but the relays are in a small electrical box within the big electrical box.

I'll try to get some water-proof relays . . . Otherwise, I was thinking of this as a wiring solution.
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There is a limit switch on either end of the actuator/sunbed travel to prevent over extending/retracting.

The wiring color scheme in my boat is:

Red=Source power
Gray=Switched power
Yellow=Ground

 

[alldodge]

How many amps or watts?

 

[alldodge]

My 2 formula's used relays and helm switch for hatch (similar to yours) and they used the old Ford style relays

 

[boscoe99]

The value of the relays is that they allow for a reduction is wire size and switch rating.

How much current flow to the actuator?

Given large enough wire sizing, together with a suitable switch, of course the relays can be done away with.

I would be very surprised if the existing switch and wiring is suitable for the current flow to and from the actuator.

 

[Lou C]

Painless wiring sells or used to sell relay bases with rubber insulation/water proofing pads, I’ll have to look at their site to see if they still sell them.

Weatherproof Relay, Base Seal, Terminal (35 amp) Part No 80129

Relays are a must-have for high-amperage circuits such as electric fans, fuel pumps, and more! This kit provides you with a 35 amp sealed relay, sealed relay base, and terminals, giving you everything you need for a sealed and protected

painlessperformance.com

 

[Scott Danforth]

The relays may be wired to the limit switches

Painless wiring is just a middle man selling TE relays and sockets

 

[tpenfield]

I think the relay salesperson came through the boat industry about 15 years ago. As I think about the boats that I've owned, newer models have relays in places were previously there were none.

 

[tpenfield]

How many amps or watts?

I'll have to check the exact model, but in general these actuators are in the range of 8-10 amps 100-125 watts. IIRC, my Formula had similar actuators without relays playing 'middle-man'.

 

[tpenfield]

Painless wiring sells or used to sell relay bases with rubber insulation/water proofing pads, I’ll have to look at their site to see if they still sell them.

Weatherproof Relay, Base Seal, Terminal (35 amp) Part No 80129

Relays are a must-have for high-amperage circuits such as electric fans, fuel pumps, and more! This kit provides you with a 35 amp sealed relay, sealed relay base, and terminals, giving you everything you need for a sealed and protected

painlessperformance.com

I have this style of relay in my off-grid solar charging system that I made for my boat. So far, after several years, the relay is still working.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Most of todays boats are running digital switching (yet another thing to o awry). Relays are minimized unless they come with a powered device or are used as a bandaid.

Inrush current on electric motors is what takes out most reversing switches and relays by arcing over the contacts.

 

[boscoe99]

I think the relay salesperson came through the boat industry about 15 years ago. As I think about the boats that I've owned, newer models have relays in places were previously there were none.

Same with the fuel injection salesperson. He came through the auto and outboard motor industries and EFI replaced carburetors.

 

[tpenfield]

In terms of arc-ing which would tend to burn out the contacts, I was thinking maybe some capacitors on the '+' side.
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