1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

rcrowell

Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
10
I bought a used 90hp johnson that never idled correctly. It runs fine as long as the throttle plates are just cracked open, but as soon as they close the engine dies. I am unable to confirm my throttle pickup timing at 4 degrees BTDC with it running because of this problem. COULD THIS BE THE IDLE CIRCUIT, AND IS THIS DUE TO IDLE JET OR BLEED HOLES?? It runs great above 1500 rpm up to 5000 rpm. I have gone through factory manual and web Q&A's and stumped. Compression on cylinders is 110, 115, 108, 105 (fact. manual says ok if within 15 psi); nice blue spark at 7/16"; rebuilt carbs; rebuilt VRO; plugs are tan, although #3 plug is slightly darker (108 psi compression). All fuel, oil, drain lines appear tight and clean and all fittings are original types. Primer bulb seems ok. I removed powerhead last year and cleaned carbon out of the exhaust jacket area where the powerhead and center tube meet. When I set the ignition timing at cranking speed with plugs removed and grounded, I read that the setting should be 4 degrees before desired timing as the igition system advances the timing by 4 degrees as it runs. either way, mid to WOT is ok, but I can't get the engine to idle with the butterflys closed. The idle speed jets are clear, but the screw slots are slightly messed up from the previous owner's rebuild. IF PROBLEM IS BLEED HOLES, CAN I RUN WIRE OR CLEANER THROUGH THEM WITH CARBS INSTALLED? SHOULD I RUN A DRILL BIT THROUGH IDLE JET SCREWS (.034") OF CORRECT SIZE OR LARGER? I tried putting grease over throttle shaft bushings to determine if too much air into venturi was problem, but sealing with grease did not affect. WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT TO GET FOR A TIMING VALUE AT APPROX. 700 RPM WITH THROTTLE PLATES CLOSED WITH THIS ENGINE? All assistance is greatly appreciated!
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

What spark plugs are you using? What grade fuel? Fresh? Has it ever been rebuilt?<br /><br />Be specific.
 

rcrowell

Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
10
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

Engine has never been rebuilt. It has always been a lake engine; I am running new 91 octane gas from the gas station (not marine gas). I have two separate 6 gallon tanks that I have run fresh gas out of, same problem with either using a common fuel line and bulb. I tried running without the VRO and a 50:1 premix, but still had the same problem. Thanks in advance.<br />-Rich
 

rcrowell

Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
10
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

I forget to mention the plugs.....I don't recall exact type but are Champion specified in Factory manual gapped to specified gap. Plugs and wires are new. I even got a Stevens CD tester and went through the entire ignition system to ensure that the ignition components weren't throwing me for a loop.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

rcrowel,<br /><br />You do NOT need 91 octane. 91 will carbon it up in short order.
 

rcrowell

Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
10
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

djohns,thanks for info. I have only run engine about 10 hours since all work done. Carbon would build up in the exhaust & pistons. Any thoughts on idle problem?<br />Thanks.
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
4,876
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

Are you sure that all cylinders are firing when at idle? When were the carbs cleaned and floats set?
 

rcrowell

Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
10
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

Clanton,<br />I rebuilt the carbs last fall, set the floats during rebuild. cleaned out both carbs. I used the Sierra rebuild kits from BoatUS, using the Johnson overhaul manual. The plugs all fire at cranking speed - good spark at a 7/16" gap. I can't check the spark with a timing light at idle because it won't idle with the throttle plates closed. It seems that as soon as the plates shut, it kills the engine. I would think that a problem exists in an idle circuit, but I would be surprised if one circuit would kill the whole engine...however I don't have a lot of experience with 2 stroke carb problems. This has 2 carbs, 2 venturis each, one for each cylinder. <br />Thanks.<br />- Rich
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
4,876
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

Remove the top carbuator, inside the top of the bore, close to throttle plate, there are 2/3 small holes. These holes have to be clear for it to idle. I check these by spraying water in one of the passages in the carb with float remove. Spray all passages until these holes in the bore are clear. If these passages plugged, remove bottom carb and clean.<br /><br />Do these carbuators have plate on top with gasket and 6 screws, if so insure gasket is not being pulled into the passage.
 

Digdug

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
77
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

Hey Rcrowell, I have read several posts here stating that the sierra rebuild kits are no good. I am not sure why but you may be able to do a search here and get more info. I use a small piece of wire to make sure idle passage ways are clean.
 

tmann05

Recruit
Joined
Aug 8, 2002
Messages
5
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

I'd like to know the answer to this problem also. I have an '88 88-SPL Johnson with the exact same problem. Only sometimes mine will settle in at idle. I've been through all the same diagnostics. I even got two used carbs and put them on having the same result...is it the carbs? The guy I bought the carbs off of in Indiana mentioned the stator. Looking under the fly wheel I do not detect any rust. Same symptoms..below 1500 rpm it starts to chug and will die, timing is set at 4d BTDC, good spark, wires, coil resistance checks, compression 110-120 all cylinders. What the **** is it?
 

rcrowell

Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
10
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

Thanks for the comments, guys! I am suspicious of the idle circuit...I'll try to run thin wire through the idle bleed holes and check the gasket at the top. Won't get to it till this weekend, but will go through the carbs again and hopefully find the problem.<br />Does anyone know what they typically get for a timing value when the engine is idling with throttle plates closed?<br />Thanks again for the ideas!
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
4,876
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

I would also disconnect the black yellow wire between the 2 power packs and try it.
 

rcrowell

Cadet
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
10
Re: 1988 Johnson 90 hp V4 won't idle

just an update...I pulled the carbs off and disassembled, they look perfectly clean and all of the bleed holes and jets are clear. In fact, there is no varnish in the carb and the floats are still set correctly. The top gaskets are not blocking the passageways.<br />Could I be running too rich, causing the engine to stall when the throttle plates close? It does run ok as soon as the plates crack open, and the power range above this is excellent. I am thinking that the primer might be leaking fuel into the manifold and the engine won't compensate until the throttle plates allow more air through.<br />Should I try pinching off the primer feed lines, or is there a test I can do before reinstalling the carbs? Squirt alcohol under pressure through primer feed and see if it passes through to the manifold lines?<br />The primer even has a new solenoid gasket and primer solenoid cover because I had broken one of plastic nipples when I first rebuilt the carbs.<br />Thanks again!<br />-Rich
 
Top