rebuild vs. new

fgose

Recruit
Joined
Dec 23, 2002
Messages
3
My Johnson Venom 200 (1991) recently stopped accelerating at 4000 rpm. Thought it was the S.L.O.W., however I have been told that compression was lost. Need a rebuild. With a qualified mech., what can I expect for reliability? Would I be better off just to buy a new one? No real warning. I did notice that it just did not seem to consume enough oil. Bad VRO? I am a low mileage runner that occassionally will put the foot to the metal. Did all the things that I was instructed to do for care, can I expect a future with a rebuild? Thanks!!!!<br />fgose
 

Waterbugtoo

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
245
Re: rebuild vs. new

Being a 91, its certainly cheaper to rebuild over a new one. Make sure to find the cause of why it went down, and you will be fine with a rebuild. OMC VRO is an accident waiting to happen. Mix your gas in the future if you do rebuild.<br /><br />
 

93bronco

Ensign
Joined
Nov 11, 2001
Messages
962
Re: rebuild vs. new

if you are at all mechanically inclined, i would check this sight for a rebuilt power head. there is one vendor that offers a 2yr no falt to you warranty for a little extra. and swap everything, thats where i will be next time. if i dont attempt it myself.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: rebuild vs. new

fgose,<br /><br />I disagree on the VRO being an accident waiting to happen. Your oil useage proably slowed down due to lack of full potential performance. <br /><br />The system is reliable-if maintained, which few people do. All it really takes is cleaning out the oil tank once a year and making sure all fittings are tight along with making sure the warning systems are working.<br /><br />Now, to your problem at hand. A new engine is going to be $10-G's, minimum. You can probably rebuild yours, professionally, for about $3-400.00 per cylinder-minimum. A thorough going through will be less than 1/3 the price of new.<br /><br />If the unit looks good and the L/U is in good shape-why not. A good dealer/rebuilder will warrant the work.<br /><br />Also, you might want to check out the rebuilt and used (warranted) engines on this (i-boats) site.
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: rebuild vs. new

fgose <br />Did you see the compression numbers and what were they on each cylinder?? You may want to do your own compression check, if ya know what I mean!!
 

fgose

Recruit
Joined
Dec 23, 2002
Messages
3
Re: rebuild vs. new

Thanks Guys, I appreciate the responses. I do trust my mechanic and being of a few years age I know that new does not always translate to better. Power head and L/U have already been done. The VRO certainly has been given a tremendous amount of resposibility. Are they all the same? Manual mixing would seem to be a very tedious thing. Despite trust, I will review compression specifics. Should I replace complete oil unit? Siphon bulb has felt like a brick to me. Mr. Reeves are you out there? Wish I were on the water.
 

mattttt25

Commander
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
2,661
Re: rebuild vs. new

sounds like you can rebuild for about 3k as opposed to new for 10-12k. only time will tell which is better. i agree, pre-mixing is such a pain, why not take advantage of the vro. i'm interested in other responses though, as my vro bulb is also always rock hard (unlike the fuel line bulb). anyone know if this is normal?
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: rebuild vs. new

Fgose.... When you say that "compression was lost", I am assuming that you are refering to only one (1) cylinder, possibly two (2), but not all cylinders.<br /><br />If this loss of compression was due to a VRO failure, oil restriction, air in the oil line, something of that nature, it would have affected the entire engine, not one or two cylinders.<br /><br />The failure of one cylinder (or two etc) would be caused by (usually) fouled carburetors, of which your engine has one carburetor for each cylinder. Carburetors foul, clog, gum up, etc, due to having the interior of the fuel lines deteriorate which seldom happens, or having the engine sit for a month or more. Faulty carburetors cause the engine to run lean on whatever cylinder they are supplying fuel to. The lean mixture causes friction, friction causes excessive heat, eventually the piston and/or rings fail.<br /><br />Also, if ignition was lost to one or two cylinders, this would eventually cause the fuel to overcome the oil which in turn would create a improper fuel mixture. This leads to what most mechanics call a "washout" which really tears a piston to pieces.<br /><br />NOTE... If there was metal flying around on top of the piston, and any of that metal has embedded itself in the cylinder head dome, replace the cylinder head. No mechanic will ever be able to remove all of those tiny steel flakes that are embedded, and with the engine running, those flakes will glow similar to a model airplane engines glow plug. That glow plug effect will cause pre-ignition which will most certainly melt a piston (don't want that).<br /><br />The fuel primer bulb is hard only when primed. As the engine runs, the bulb is usually in a horizontal position and the fuel drops down to the midway point which is normal, but the bulb will remain fully expanded. If it has a tendency to collapse, a fuel restriction exists between the bulb and the fuel supply.<br /><br />The oil primer bulb will be hard all of the time which is normal as oil has a thicker viscosity. Perhaps there are other reasons it retains its firmness that I'm not aware of. If the oil primer bulb loses that firmness, there would have to be a air leak between that bulb and the oil supply.<br /><br />Whether to rebuild or replace is a judgement call you'll need to make. It's more reasonable to rebuild ($$$) if it's done properly by a mechanic that knows exactly what he's doing, and one that you have complete faith in. Keep in mind that there are mechanics.... and there are parts replacers.<br /><br />Usually when I rebuild a powerhead, and the VRO is a year or two old, I replace the VRO on general principles, but there are exceptions. In your case, your engine has two VROs if I'm not mistaken and replacing them would be fairly expensive. If they're four or five years old, I'd still replace them, or you could re-use them and run the following test.<br /><br />After rebuilding, run the engine at a fast idle (not too fast), then clamp the oil line shut that leads to one VRO. The warning horn should sound off (a beep every other second) within a short time. Release the clamp on the oil line... the horn should go silent. Now do the same test on the other VRO. If the VROs check out okay, and the warning horn system is operational, I think re-using the original VROs would be okay.<br /><br />Do replace the oil pickup filter screens that are located within the oil tank.<br /><br />If you decide to do away with the VRO system and mix the oil with the fuel, instructions are listed below.<br /><br />(VRO Pump Conversion To Straight Fuel Pump)<br /><br />You can convert the VRO pump into a straight fuel pump, eliminating the oil tank and VRO pump warning system, but retain the overheat warning setup by doing the following:<br /><br />1 - Cut and plug the oil line at the engine so that the oil side of the VRO pump will not draw air into its system. Trace the wires from the back of the VRO to its rubber plug (electrical plug) and disconnect it.<br /><br />2 - Trace the two wires from the oil tank to the engine, disconnect those two wires, then remove them and the oil tank.<br /><br />3 - Mix the 50/1 oil in the proper amount with whatever quanity fuel you have. Disconnect the fuel line at the engine. Pump the fuel primer bulb until fuel exits that hose with the tint of whatever oil you used. Reconnect the fuel hose.<br /><br />That's it. If you want to test the heat warning system to ease your mind, have the key in the on position, then ground out the tan heat sensor wire that you'll find protruding from the cylinder head. The warning horn should sound off.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: rebuild vs. new

fgose,<br /><br />Listen to Joe. Joe knows these things. :D <br /><br />My experience with the VRO primer bulb is that they always remain hard (when they are working properly). This does not mean that there might not be water in the VRO tank. Draining the tank and replacing the pick up sock-annually is a good idea, as Joe says.
 

Mumblerone

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
344
Re: rebuild vs. new

Joe Reeves/djohns19...I have a pair of 1996 175 HP Evinrude Ocean Pros. Practical questions. I want to add, to my annual maintenance, the changing of the filters in my two three gallon VRO oil tanks. That's seem a problem when their full (in the spring), but doable. The real hassel comes in when I have to add oil to my 195 gallon tank (50:1) to see if the VROs are working again! At that rate I'll runing 25:1 for a half year! Seriously, any 'short cuts' to this process. Can the filter be changed without rechecking system to see if VRO is working...if you know what I mean? It is certainly time I did this; I have about 400 hours on motors. Thanks.
 

Jim@KSC

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 1, 2002
Messages
89
Re: rebuild vs. new

Mumblerone -<br /><br />Seems to me this is where a couple of spare plastic tanks, with gas lines, would come in good.<br /><br />12 gallons won't get you far, but it would be emough to prove the VRO oil level is dropping.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: rebuild vs. new

Mumblerone.... Simply changing the oil filter shouldn't have any effect on the operation of the VRO pump. However, I can understand that one would think that air would have a chance to enter the system doing that change.<br /><br />If this is your concern, after changing the filter, compress the oil primer bulb one time only..... that is simply apply pressure to it, don't try to collapse it. Then, go through the test mentioned above (clamp oil line) to make sure the VRO warning system is operational (a beep every other second).<br /><br />You can then rest assured that if air should be in the line somewhere, or any other problem exists with the auto oil system, you will be warned about it.<br /><br />TIP.... Many warning horns are located under a thick fiberglass console which makes it almost impossible to hear. You can wire another (louder) horn or a bright light in parallel with the original horn to eliminate that problem. Being wired in parallel allows the original horn to beep when you turn the key on, and allows both items (horns, or horn & light) to operate when a problem arises (overheating, fuel restriction on some engines, VRO oil problem, low oil level).
 

fgose

Recruit
Joined
Dec 23, 2002
Messages
3
Re: rebuild vs. new

Okay, here we go into another journey never made before. Thanks everyone. Just like I would have to do with this old carcus, I will rebuild. For the risk involved I think that new VRO's are not prohibitive. Oh, by the way Mr. Reeves you are a bonus!! So, several thousand dollars later I see me as a happy man on the pattern again.
 

Mumblerone

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
344
Re: rebuild vs. new

Thanks Joe...for the tip on changing oil filters in VRO. Will change this spring. ;)
 

93bronco

Ensign
Joined
Nov 11, 2001
Messages
962
Re: rebuild vs. new

Rotti- i bumped this up so you could get the procedure for the VRO.
 

93bronco

Ensign
Joined
Nov 11, 2001
Messages
962
Re: rebuild vs. new

^^^ for John F.<br />sorry should have refered him to the topic.
 

John.F

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 8, 2003
Messages
30
Re: rebuild vs. new

Thanks guys for the good info.<br />I'd rather dissable the VRO. and mix the fuel myself rather than worrying myself sick, I do alot of offshore boating and thats the last thing I need to fail on me ! :eek: <br />I realize If things are looked after and serviced regularly,things should be ok. however better SAFE than SORRY !! :D <br />thanks again................John.
 
Top