Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

[ShawnQ]

Tonight I had nothing better to do than tear into the mess of an engine I have. I decided I would AT LEAST disassemble it and see if it could be rebuilt, and possibly even go thru with it (if I can't find a cheap comparable outboard anytime soon).<br /><br />First things first, flywheel removal. Guess what? I dont have a puller, and no one in town had one for a marine flywheel (I tried a steering wheel puller, didn't work.). So, I had to make one:

<br />Simple, but effective!<br /><br />After that, I got the rest of the engine stipped without much hassle at all. I had one screw/bolt that was locked up on me. Luckily, it was in the exterior shroud that covers the lower exhaust manifold. I broke a little piece of the lower engine cover off trying to get the screw loose, oh well, no big deal.<br /><br />After about 2 hours, I had the powerhead ready to be pulled. I went to pull it/break loose the gasket on the lower end of it...and I couldn't get it to move for a bit. I checked, checked, and triple checked to make sure that there were no more bolts anywhere holding it down. I re-read the manual I have, and it said '4 bolts on each side, one stud with a nut on it'.<br />I could only find 3 bolts per side, and the stud on the back of the powerhead...<br /><br />Is this thing just sealed on there that well, or am I missing 2 bolts somewhere? Anyone know where the mystery bolts may be on this engine, or do I need to call scooby and shaggy? <br /><br />Or, if it is just sealed with age (1972), how should I seperate them?<br /><br />I tried using pry bars, rubber mallets, etc...it wouldn't move a hair.<br /><br />Thanks in advance!<br />Shawn

 

[G DANE]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Shawn - did you take the lower unit off first so you know the driweshaft isnt stuck in cranck splines with rust ? Be aware to remowe lover cowling cover I think there are bolts in front there. I know a lot of people will disagree, but I once honed a cylinder like yours and put a used piston in it, even with the used rings after a light hone. Compression was within 2 psi on all cylinders after a couple of hours use. This motor has run for 6 years now, the guy did 100 hrs on it the one year! It iddles and runs like a champ, a 1973 vintage. My advise would be to take a clouse look at the cylinder when you have it apart. There isnt much difference between what can be accepted on af 4stroke and a 2stroke, and you said you were familiar to 4S. It alle depends on what you demand from your motor.

 

[OBJ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Morning Shawn...Look underneath the pan more towards the front of the engine. Sometimes hard to see these fasteners. They probably are shorter than the ones one the sides. I will double check the book when I get to the shop and let you know as I'm going off memory right now. Another probability is you may have one or two bolts broken off and whats left is corroded in the holes. Would make removing the powerhead a pain in the patut. Sometimes breaking lose from the gasket is a problem. Just have to keep at it until it does. Later.

 

[OBJ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Forgot....nifty puller!!

 

[OBJ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Shawn...OEM service manual says three bolts per side and the one stud in the rear with lockwasher and nut. Drop the lower unit as G Dane suggests and keep at it. It will come off.

 

[OBJ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Shawn...I listed all parts that you may want to change if found bad. You will not neccessarily have to replace them all. Good reference for future parts if needed. <br /><br />This post seems to be quicker than email.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

OB Jim,<br /><br />I will go ahead and pull the lower unit and see if I can get it apart.<br /><br />It's a shame that I had it ready to pull in less than two hours, and I spent 2 more hours just trying to get it off the lower half, .<br />I could've had a bare powerhead in 2 hours, oh well! I will get after it again this afternoon.<br /><br />Is there any type of penetrant or spray that will help seperate it?<br /><br />While i'm on here: How many bolts hold the lower unit to the top half? Just curious...<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Shawn

 

[sailor_turned_stinkpotter]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Did you unfasten the shifter linkage?<br />I had the same problem when I just rebuilt my 60hp...pulled it apart in no time flat then couldnt remove the power head...untill...that sneaky linkage bolt down behind the carbs!!!!!

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Sailor_turned_stinkpotter...<br /><br />Actually, all of the bolts were removed. I just got the powerhead off. Last night before I left I sprayed a penetrant between the powerhead and lower half, and I guess it worked! <br /><br />I got here today, took a rubber mallet to the lift hook on the top of the powerhead, and hit it lightly to the side, and it popped the seal instantly...So, maybe I was just tired last night and I was being a big wuss? <br /><br />No for the fun part, internals! <br /><br />Also, what am I looking for in the exhaust cover as far as causes of all of my damage? Will it be evident, or will it be hard to find?<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Shawn

 

[lpkirby]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Shawn, Not to get off topic, but HOW DID you post a picture?????? Cool puller by the way..<br /><br />Sorry to get off topic..<br /><br />Leon

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

I hosted the image on another site, and then I used the 'image' function on the 'post reply' page, and pasted the URl of the image into it.<br /><br />SHawn

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Like I said, I've got the powerhead detached..<br /><br />Now, It says to remove the crankcase seal...does it have to be pulled off with a puller? Or does it just slide off?<br /><br />It looks to me like you can pull the intake/reed area off without taking the 'crankcase seal' off...can you?<br /><br />THanks!<br />shawn

 

[OBJ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Shawn...give us an update, how ya' doin with the project?

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

OB Jim..<br /><br />I've got the powerhead totally off.<br />I've got all of the nuts/bolts/washers in ziplocs, labeled what they are for. I numbered each hole on the head and on the manifold cover, as well as numbered the bolts. (I wasn't sure if there were any that were a different length. Also, some bolts like using their own threads again ).<br /><br />As for the disassembly...I am going to do that this evening. I found a 'boat junkyard' here in San Antonio that has a ton of OMC parts from this era. I am probably going to pick up a used cylinder head from that guy. I will then take the powerhead to have it honed/bored. The few people I have talked to about it say to replace the bottom piston only, hone the block, and go with it. I dont intend to keep the boat for long, so this may be what I decide to do, just 'patch' it.<br />I also had people tell me that I could use the cylinder head as is...but I dont feel comfy with that. They said that it's not like a car head because there are no valves in it. They say it acts 'only as a seal for compression', and if there are dents/pits in it, it wont hurt it.<br />I'd like to go ahead and get a used one in better shape if all possible...and I may still do all 3 cylinders, I haven't decided just yet.<br /><br />Thanks! I'll keep ya posted!<br />Shawn

 

[G DANE]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Hi Shawn<br /><br />I thing you´d be better off finding a used head if you can. Combustion temparature is pretty high at WOT, and the small metal edges will glow and light mixture as soon as compresssion appears. You will have an explosion motor in stead of combustion motor. At least grind the high edges away and correct head warp on grinding papir 200 on glass plate or similar. Good luck. If you find a used piston, compare skirt wear marks to the good ones you have.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

I really wouldn't feel comfortable using the current head...so I'll probably find a used one.<br /><br />www.outboardexhcange.com has them for $80 used..I may be able to find cheaper at the boat junkyard in town. I just talked to the guy, and he said he thinks he has a complete powerhead in good shape he can sell me for ~$250...I may go that route and save myself some time and trouble...<br /><br />I'll letcha know!<br /><br />Shawn

 

[Walker]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Shawn, you need to be cautious of buying a powerhead from Benny. I wouldn't trust him for anything other than parts.

 

[OBJ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Shawn...what G Dane said and then some. You do not want to use the old head. All those dings and dents can hold carbon which can start to glow causing preignition. Something that does not set well with a motor. Also, Mic the cylinders, the ones that do not need bored, and make sure that they will still be in specs after honing. You only got .003 to .004 to play with so be cautious of only honing on a motor this old. The cylinder specs will be in the service manual. Keep on truckin' son, your headed in the right direction.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Walker,<br />Thanks for the advice...I wasn't sure of his rep. My uncle bought several parts from him at a great price, and they were all in great shape...and had no trouble. However, he didn't buy anything complete that he couldn't inspect first. Also, read below about 'mercer marine':<br /><br />OBJim, <br />I was thinking about the pre-ignition before I read your post...it makes sense to spend the $50-85 on a new/used head. I will do that for sure <br /><br />Get this: There is a fairly well known marine shop local to me. It's not much more than a little hole in the wall, but it's one with a good rep for good work and reasonable prices. Come to find out, the head mechanic and previous owner is the father of the secretary at my work (who is a good friend of mine since Kindergarten in Elementary.) He used to own the shop (mercer marine), and sold it. Now he's just the mechanic. He said he was tired of the paperwork part of it...but loved the work. Anyways...I just recently painted her car for her, and charged her nothing but materials (~$300 for the good stuff). So, she owes me a favor...You guessed it, How about a rebuilt outboard? <br />I talked to her dad today, and he's going to come to my shop on Saturday and help me crack open the crankcase, mic the cylinders, check the crank and bearings, and let me know what all I need. This way I can watch and learn the first time around...making myself a little more experienced when I try it on my own. <br /><br />So, I am probably getting a rebuild for the price of parts only! Turned out good...<br /><br />For what it's worth, here is a reply to a parts inquiry I did over at 'www.outboardexchange.com', seems pretty reasonable:<br /><br />used head<br />$85 (90 day warranty)<br />a gasket set, with head gasket<br />59.95<br />030 pistons, 3 with rings & wrist pin bearings <br />83.94each x3<br />251.82<br />the sealer that is used for the gaskets gel seal<br />16.65<br /><br />total<br />413.42 + 12 for shipping <br /><br />How's that? Pretty good prices, or can I do better? I may not need 3 pistons either, but I'd rather have a high estimate than a low one...<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Shawn

 

[OBJ]

Re: Decided to disassemble and rebuild: Need some help! (65johnson again!)

Sounds like ya' fell in the proverbial outhouse and came up smellin' like a rose buddy. Sounds like the gentleman that is going to help you is a good find. Don't be afraid to pick his brain. Get his drift on gasket sealing compound. I think I would only use the gel seal on the crankcase halves and only a very thin coat. Keep us updated on the project. <br /><br />PS....does this girl have any more cars to paint or grass to cut or somethin'.