frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

[docjohnson]

Ok, let me explain my motor. Bought party barge with an older motor that I thought. They had told me they rebuilt blown engine, 1988 Johnson, 48 horse, model J48eslccc, with 50 horsepower top part. Didn't think to ask how old. Turns out the top part has the numbers 50ESL75B and a number E4267633 below that on the freeze plug on the motor so I am assuming it is a 1975 Johnson, 50 hp?? It has run well the last three years and then this year started up once and died. Have been throwing parts at it trying to get to the problem. Got a manual and tested everything. Replaced the key switch and that brought the automatic choke back to life. Put a new rectifier on before we got a way to test it. Finally broke down and got a new powerpack because we were not getting any spark to both plugs, now we are getting blue spark at the plugs, but when turning it over, it runs down very fast and the starter gets warm but not too hot and it seems to not turn fast enough to start it very quickly. The compression is good on the motor. Any suggestions on what to do next would be greatly appreciated!! By the way, the battery tester says the battery is fully charged, should we take and test under a load?

 

[roscoe]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Load test wouldn't be a bad idea. It would eliminate any doubt.<br /><br />Check all ground wires and cables. Make sure they are clean, corrosion free, and tight. This includes the battery cables. If real bad, cut them back and put new ends on them as the corrosion can be under the insulation.<br /><br />Not sure how to test the starter, you may find that info by doing a search. Maybe someone will be along to tell you.

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Dear Roscoe,<br />Thank you very much for the info and reply. Will check the cables again tomorrow and take the battery into town for a check. Will keep you posted. Docked Johnson (Doc)

 

[turtle1173]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Doc,<br /><br /> If all the connections turn out to be clean and tight, it may very well be the brushes in your starter. If they are worn too much, it will cause the starter to not perform effectively. <br /><br /> I recently had a starter off my Chrysler rebuilt at an auto electronics shop for $30 w/ a 1 year warranty. They were able to test it right there at the shop.<br /><br />Shane

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Hey, thanks for the input, we were thinking the same thing about the starter. Can't hurt to try, we've made this Johnson our money pitt this summer and still not in the water fishing!! Will keep you posted!! Docked Johnson (Doc)

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Well, the saga continues! Took the starter to our favorite shop and he took it all apart and the brushes and bushings were fine, said it was gummy and lubed it for us and didn't charge us a thing! So we can rule out the starter now and had two different places check the battery and it is good. Can the carbs be causing it not to start? We took the hoses off of them and pumped gas thru the one and it looked clean with right oil mix. Can't get to the screw on the bottom without taking the front breather part off, the bottom of the case is in the way. Any suggestions, gurus??

 

[Walker]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Do a load test on your battery. Most any auto parts store will do it for you. Charge your battery up before you take it for testing. Just because a battery shows full charge doesn't mean its a good battery.

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Thanks Capt. Walker,<br />Supposedly the first guy at the starter place loaded the battery and said it was good and the other Zone place checked it too. Will trickle charge it up again before we try to start boat, will keep you posted! Doc

 

[sharkcat]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Is it firing at all?Have you done a link & synch?If the timing is too far advanced it could be firing far too early & that could cause the slow engine rotation just a thought...

 

[Spidybot]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Browse this post - about similar thing

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Sharkcat and UU, is a link and sink where you drag the boat to the middle of the lake, sink it and deny any link to it as an owner??? <br />Seriously, we felt the timing was ok since we didn't mess with anything that would mess it up since it ran last year? I know this doesn't necessarily mean there isn't anything wrong, I'm fresh off the farm and don't know exactly what you mean to do, looked at the manual and synchronization but can't understand why it would be out?<br />I have replaced all battery ends even tho they looked clean and charged the battery which doesn't seem to help. It will turn over for about 8-10 rotations then start rapidly to bog down. Never starts. Drained carbs from the front drain plugs and even sprayed CRC marine cleaner in them and drained. Getting spray from the spark plug holes when turning over and the plugs out. Put new fuel filter on and flushed all the gas lines to the carbs. Did compression test on both cylinders and got 43-45 on both is that good enough? for this 50hp Johnson? What is the compression supposed to be on 50 ESL75B Model #? Couldn't find it in the manual. Could the timer base be bad, stator looks ok, no meltdown, was told they rarely if ever go out on this model.

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Sharkcat and UU, is a link and sink where you drag the boat to the middle of the lake, sink it and deny any link to it as an owner??? <br />Seriously, we felt the timing was ok since we didn't mess with anything that would mess it up since it ran last year? I know this doesn't necessarily mean there isn't anything wrong, I'm fresh off the farm and don't know exactly what you mean to do, looked at the manual and synchronization but can't understand why it would be out?<br />I have replaced all battery ends even tho they looked clean and charged the battery which doesn't seem to help. It will turn over for about 8-10 rotations then start rapidly to bog down. Never starts. Drained carbs from the front drain plugs and even sprayed CRC marine cleaner in them and drained. Getting spray from the spark plug holes when turning over and the plugs out. Put new fuel filter on and flushed all the gas lines to the carbs. Did compression test on both cylinders and got 43-45 on both is that good enough? for this 50hp Johnson? What is the compression supposed to be on 50 ESL75B Model #? Couldn't find it in the manual. Could the timer base be bad, stator looks ok, no meltdown, was told they rarely if ever go out on this model.

 

[Fouled Plug]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

I hope the compression is a misprint. 43-45 is not at all good.

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Correction on compression of both cylinders, not 43-45, they are both 100. Rechecked to make sure with glasses on this time! Only getting intermittent fire with plugs out. Can stator be suspect or anything in it? These are new plugs correct number. Doc

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

ok, I'm thinking stator or ignition coils, have no fire on either plug when we did have some fire yesterday. Had some on one plug today and none on the other and then later had none on both. Did tests in manual for spark plugs, even tried a new plug just to see if the others had gone bad in a week, no such luck. Did the Sensor coil low ohm test and it came out about 17 so it was good. Tried to do a charge coil output check but our ohm meter doesn't read and just shows a 1, which it says is an overload. Using a digital multimeter. So don't know if this acceptable, we did crank over the motor while doing it, thought that is what the book wanted, if we just took a reading not cranked it was 0. Says it should be 750+/= 75 ohms? Book said to crank above that if using a neon test light so didn't know. Could the stator be the problem of this low intermittent spark, the coils look ok, is there a very simple way to test the ignition coils and if so please explain exactly what to do, ie which wires to connect where? Thanks guys for all your help so far, it has really educated this ole country boy, the boat is making me feel stupid!!!

 

[Walker]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Let me beat a dead horse here Doc. You say it cranks 8 - 10 revolutions then rapidly bogs down. Is the battery low when it bogs. If it only takes that much to run your battery down then your battery is bad.

 

[Solittle]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Charging the battery may not help. Take it to Sears or someplace & have a load check done. Bet you have a bad cell.

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Hope everyone had a safe 4th, saw a bad wreck between two party barges in the dark after fireworks at the lake. We were on the dock.<br />In reply to the battery question, changed batteries just to check and boat still will not start. Took other battery into town and had load check done a third time and explained our problem and they said the battery was in excellent shape and there were no dead cells. Does anyone know an easy way to check ignition coils or stator, we came up with not the same answer as the manual said on the charge coil/stator test they recommended doing in the book. Thanks for any help!!

 

[sparkroost]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Doc, you have more than one problem.<br />#1 it sounds like your starter is bad. The winding crimp connections to the armature are bad. You verified that battery and connections were good. The symptom you described is how a starter in that condition will act. It heats up at the crimp connection and the resistance increases. Some windings even go open. This results in the power factor going down, producing less power to do the job.<br /><br />#2 put a spark tester on there set at 1/2". If you don't have one you can make one or get the spark plug tip 1/2" from the powerhead and crank it, looking for the spark. Don't hold the wire though...<br /><br />If you have good spark, check your flywheel key. It might be sheared off.

 

[docjohnson]

Re: frustrated and frazzled!! Can't figure it out!!

Sparkroost, thanks for the reply. Had the starter checked out two days ago by a very reputable rebuilder that is all he does for 30 years, he says the starter is fine. Also already checked the key and it is ok. Can't get spark from both spark plugs no matter which way we test them, it was blue one day and then no spark, it seems to be intermittant,had weak spark on one and none on the other the next day and none ever since that is why we think the stator may be out or charge coils in stator aren't working properly. Do you know how to check the ignition coils easily, we don't have a neon light but have other testers?