92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

[DaveS.]

I have a 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star mod# VJ175EXENC. I have had this motor for a little over three years. Recently I had it out and had been running it for about six hours( 3500 rpm for about an hour then trolling) when I decided to head back in. Got the boat on plane for about 10-15 min. and the motor just died, like I turned the switch off or pulled the kill switch. After several attmpts to start the motor it finally started, tried to get it up on plane and the same thing happened. Got it started again and pushed it up to 1800 rpm and it ran for about 2 hours that way on the way in. Then, it started happenng again and did it five or six more times on the way in. Spoke with a friend who had had a similar experience and he said it was water in the fuel. Drain the bowls on the carbs and drained the tank and installed a new separator filter but found no water. Spoke with a local o/b mech and he said that it sounded electrical and that it was probably in the key/kill switch or the elec. harness. Check the switches and harness as per my Clymer manual. On the key switch test i was moving some wires and the meter dipped. pulled the switch and fou that pushing on the rubber boot covering the M terminal the meter dipped. Pulled the bott back and found the wire was corroded. Stripped back the wire to clean wire(1/8 inch) and crimped on a new end. Thought that was it. Put the boat in the water and it ran, smoked a bit, but once up on plane it ran fine. ran it out to the old fishin' hole (about 30min.slowing down to idle,twice,to chase bait)and it never missed a lick. Sat there about an hour and decided to move. The motor would not start. pulled a plug to check for fire-none. put the plug back in and tried to start it. Fired right up. idled over to another spot(about 5min.) and sat there about 2 hrs. Went to leave, boat fired right up, idled into the channel, got up on plane at 4000rpm for about five min. then it just died again. Checked the fuel filter at the motor-clear.After several attempts got it to start but it was surging and then i got a warning horn. It would beep once every 5-6 seconds(not covered in the manual). Turnit off, started, put it in gear and ran at idle for about 20 min, then it died again. started it again, then every time I put it in gear it would die. had to get towed in. Got it half way back, tried to start it and it fired right up. got it back to the dock and tried to start it-no go.<br />Needless, I started my troubleshooting all over. Istarted with the key switch and it checked out okay. Then I read in a post that with plug at the power pack disconnected and the key sw. turn on there should be no voltage on the black/yellow wire. I checked mine, .018 volts DC. Switch off 0 volts. Could this be a problem? I have also conducted the power and charge coil resistance checks-both good. The coil output voltage tests are low. 39 volts AC and 106 volts AC. Readings were taken with a digital voltmeter and multplied by 1.414. Is a peak reading meter necessary or is my methodology correct? Several of the tests call for one.<br />I have spent the last four days going through the posts to find a similar problem with no luck but I am leaning towards the stator being the problem. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

 

[clanton]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Which cylinders were getting 39 volts, and which cylinders were getting 106 volts? Pack output to coil should be 100 volts or higher with peak reading meter. The ones with 39 volts are too low indicating defective powerpack/sensor. Sensor comes with powerpack.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

The 39 volts is coming from the power coils on the stator going into the power pack.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

According to my Clymer manual. the power coils should put out 50 volt and the charge coils should put out 150 volts.

 

[clanton]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

How many volts going to ignition coils?

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

It appears I may be on to something. Pulled the ignition coils to do a resistance check. Under the #1/2 coil on the #1 side there appears to be some arcing to the powerpack shield and the #5 coil ohms out at 1.7 meg on the secondary side. All of the other coils ohm out at 300 on the secondary and .2 on the primary side to ground. I can see one bad cyl. causing rough idling but would it cause the motor to just stop?

 

[clanton]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Coil arcing common problem 60 degree engines.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Could that bad coil cause the powerpack to fail? Should I (would you) change the powerpack? So far, I have had no luck finding a powerpack for this model. Have tried seilermarine.com and outboardparts.com.

 

[clanton]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

You never did give pack output to coil. I dont have that year manual, so not sure of specs. You said power coil 39 volts, and charge coil 106 volts. You also said Clymer specs were 50 and 150 volts. If the Cylmer manual is correct, and you are doing the test correctly, the stator is bad. I would verify the spec with OMC manual, buy the peak reading meter adapter, retest the complete ignition system. You are not doing enough test to cause me to replace any part. I still think the pack and sensor is bad. Verify. verify, it will save you money.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Thanks Clanton. Me thinks you are right. I will buy the adapter and re-check. I will get back to you as soon as it arrives and I retest. Thanks for the advice.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

I was able to borrow an adapter from the local o/b repair shop. Coil output from the stator is 152/156 on the charge coils and 72 on the power coil. power pack output was 102-106 volts on all six.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

I read on another post "won't start"(last entry 25aug03) that had a similar problem with the exception that I have not had any problems with the motor turning over. the question is, how can a bad neutral start switch cause the motor to stop?

 

[ob]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Dave ,This is a difficult problem in that it is intermittent by the description in your first post.Posstively eliminate the saftety lanyard switch as possible culprit in intermittent spark failure.Next you mentioned that you recieved an alarm that was repeating tones when engine was running and surging.Unless your alarm module is malfuntioning also this is probably the no oil alarm which is denoted by rapid short tones.How did you confirm you had no spark on one when you removed it? Just trying to insure you had it grounded while testing.I'm unclear on as to fuel or spark related issue.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

ob, yes, the plug was grounded. had a friend checking it while i turned it over. he had it grounded to another plug but now he is second guessing himself because we have checked spark several more times over the last few weeks and have always gotten spark. I now think the warning i was getting was due to the fact the engine was surging (almost acted like it was only running on 3 cyl.). it was not the short rapid tones. it was a 3-4 sec horn and then a 3-4 pause. odd. That only happened the one time. it started and died several more times but i did not get the horn again and it did not run like that again.<br />I have checked out the kill switch and it seems fine. I have been through the key switch and it seems okay although i purchased a new one to rule that out.<br /> Yes, this is frustrating due to the fact that it is intermittent. Since the last time it failed, every time i have tried to start it in the driveway it has fired right up.<br />Ispoke with the local o/b mech. and he suggested that i put it in the water and run it until it acts up again. then start the troubleshooting again. Sound advice i think but i'll have to find a kicker motor to borrow first.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Update. I was doing a decarb with sea foam tonight with the motor on the muffs. ran it about 15 min. when i got an overheat alarm. shut it down and waited about 10 min. tried to restart the motor--no go. tried a couple more times--no go. pulled a plug to check fire. NO fire. Decided to pull the thermostats. when i pulled the covers the stats fell apart. they are plastic and are threaded but the thread were stripped. pulled all of the pieces out and replaced the covers. put the hose to the backflusher and let it run about 15 min to cool everything down. put the hose back on the muffs and tried to start the motor and it fired right up. it ran for about 5 min and the water coming from the pisser got progressively hotter until i could not keep my hand under it but no overheat alarm. as i was climbing back in the boat to shut down the motor, it shut itself down. I had the water pump replaced last year but the steam coming out of the pisser has never been as strong as it was prior to having the pump replaced.<br />Questions 1) could doing the decarb have contributed to the overheat? even after i pulled the stats?<br />2) Time to have the water pump done again?<br />3)Any thing else i should be looking at?

 

[OBJ]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Dave...<br /><br />Just caught yer post and read it through.<br /><br />First problem, you should be getting a strong 50 volts from the power coil. Take an ohm reading on it...between the orange and orange/black stripe wire (think those are the ones). You should read 100omhs+/- 10. If you get an open reading, the power coil is probably your bad guy.<br /><br />Overheat....best advice...start at the pump and work your way up. If you use your rig often in silty or sandy water, could be the impeller is worn out already or possibly a mechanical problem around the pump area.

 

[Bryant Davis]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Dave..<br /><br />I just spent a week diagnosing / fixing a problem that sounds just like yours. I replaced the keyswitch, timer base, kill switch, and almost the wiring harness before I figured out what the problem was. Same as your motor, it would occasionally start, alarm would sound irratically, and motor would die for no apparent reason. I would check for spark and sometimes it would be there, sometimes not. I would suggest checking your wiring at the motor. I had a wire running from the harness to a powerpack that was corroded almost in half. If you can get the motor running, jiggle the wires from the harness to the power packs and see if the horn intermittenly sounds, and motor maybe dies. Once I found the wire and fixed, I'm as good as new. Hopefully it will be something simple. Wiring problems can be frustrating though!<br /><br />Bryant

 

[clanton]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

Warm the pack and sensor with hair dryer and re test. When using the adapter, are you using the DC 400 volt scale ? DC scale required with Rapair and Esit adapter.

 

[DaveS.]

Re: 92 Johnson 175 Silver Star--Motor just dies like pulling the kill switch

OBJ, are you saying 72 volts from the power coil is too much? Did the resistance check, 103 Ohms. Yes I do run in the intracoastal and rivers a lot and it is frequently silty/sandy. As I mentioned earlier. I had the pump replaced last year when the foot was rebuilt but the stream of water coming from the telltale has never been as strong. I will definitely be tearing into the pump. I am still a little befuddled as to how those thermostats came apart. Age maybe. Don't know when the last time those were changed out. <br /> Any ideas on how the flush the water jacket clean while i have the foot off? I know salt build up is usually pretty tough to remove. Also after running, should i use the backflusher or muffs to clean the motor? I have read posts that argue both sides. Maybe one should do both.<br /> Bryant, looks like i'll have some time to go over all of the wiring with a fine tooth comb. Thanks for the input. Hopefully, eventually, I'll get this nailed down.