Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

[steviecops]

I have a 1980 Johnson 55, 2 cylider, electric start.<br /><br />I changed my spark plugs today, and went to run the engine but it wouldn't start. I put the old plugs back in, which were fine last time out about a month ago, but it still wouldn't start.<br /><br />When I took the new plugs out, I noticed they were dry, as if no fuel was getting through to them, so I started to check the fuel system.<br /><br />I noticed that fuel was being forced out of the fuel pipe/pump connection when I pumped the bulb. Not vast amounts, just slight seepage.<br /><br />When I disconnected the fuel line from the engine to try a different tank with new fuel, fuel spurted out of the connection under pressure. Also, when I undid the screw to check the filter on the fuel pump, petrol spurted out from the fuel pump under considerable pressure. It seems to me that the fuel isn't getting any further than the pump, and that there is back pressure building up there when the bulb is pumped.<br /><br />Does this make sense? If so, will a fuel pump kit remedy the problem?<br /><br />Another thing I saw which worried me, was a brown, waxy substance which looked as if it had dripped from the top coil onto the head, as if it had melted and dripped down. Is this anything serious? Any ideas what this is and what has caused it?<br /><br />Sorry for the long post, but I'm trying to put as much information as possible on here in the hope that someone may be able to help me.<br /><br />I would be very grateful for any advice.<br />Thanks in advance.<br />Steve

 

[james roach]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Check your spark. It may be time for some electrical work.

 

[SCO]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

I would first verify whether it is a fuel problem by squirting premix directly into the carbs and or spark plug holes to see if you get any life that way. When the carb bowls fill, the float valves shut off, so it would produce the back pressure you describe normally. Sounds like you have a bad coil/stator...it is serious. Check compression, and if good, then engine worth a redo, so then replace all the electrical components for a like new engine...Make sure you have battery and all components hooked up with the correct polarity.

 

[steviecops]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

SCO<br />Is the brown stuff that has dripped from my top coil the major problem here? If so, what do you think is the cause? Is it just a bad coil, or something that has made the coil bad?<br /><br />You mention the stator, would a faulty stator have that effect on my coil? Is it worth replacing the coil, or would that just get ruined by whatever has affected the original coil?<br /><br />This is very worrying ( If I need to replace the stator, that is a big and expensive job, right? And changing ALL the electrical components, sounds like it will be very expensive also (<br /><br />Assuming that it isn't a fuel problem after all, do you think that the repairs needed are within the capabilities of someone who has limited experience with outboard motors? I have experience of working on car engines, and have changed impellers and starter re-coils on my other outboard, but that's as far as my experience goes.<br />Once again, any advice would be gratefuly accepted.<br /><br />Thanks <br />Steve

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

hello<br /> whooaaaaa<br /> one problem at a time.<br /> when it wont start dont splatter gun the troubleshooting. test spark. it is quick and easy. test compression if it is good then proceed to check fuel. close the choke blades manually crank the engine and oberve whether or not fuel was pulled from the bowl. if all of the above pass the test it may be time to call a professional. outboards are incredibly simple. just break it into subsystems and understand how each subsystem works with the entire system. if you splatter gun it it will drive you nuts and your wallet bare.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[JB]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

The troubleshooting guide on "Outboard Wont Start" in the FAQ offers a systematic procedure to isolate your trouble to a fuel or ignition problem.<br /><br />Check it out.

 

[ED21]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Did you switch plug wires accidently?

 

[steviecops]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Thanks Rodbolt. <br />My head was starting to spin there! <br /><br />JB. <br />I haven't had time to carry all the tests on the "outboard won't start" thread, because I'm going to work in a minute, but I did check to see if I'm getting a spark at the plugs, and the compression.<br /><br />There is a very healthy spark at both plugs, and the compression on both cylinders is good.<br /><br />I think I might have hit on something else that could be causing the problem. The control box seemed to be stuck, ie, difficult to move the gear/throttle lever, like something wasn't moving freely. I know there is a safety feature in there that prevents the motor starting when in gear with the starting lever raised. Maybe the throttle lever being stuck had something to do with the motor not starting. Is that possible?<br /><br />A turn on the prop freed the control box up, but I haven't had the chance to try to start the engine since. I'll give it a go tomorrow.<br /><br />By the way, I'm still concerned about the brown waxy stuff that seems to have dripped from my top coil. Any ideas?<br /><br />Sorry again for all the questions, and many thanks for the advice so far.<br /><br />Steve

 

[SCO]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Yea, shotgunning is not a good idea, but, since it is an 80, you have a good excuse to restore it to perfect working order if spark is not good. For example , on my 73 engine, the rectifier leads simply wore out/ broke. The insulation on many components was practically disintigrated. Sry for the bad advice. Fix 1st then restore as inclined. If you have healthy spark and compression, its a fuel problem probably or spark is going off at the wrong times. If you try the premix in the carbs and spark plug holes like I suggested, life would allow you to rule a spark problem out. 1st things first. BTW, if you cant get the lever raised, IE throttle flapper closed, the motor wont start because fuel cant get into the crankcase no matter how much you choke it. THe no start switch in the control box nd also probably redundantly on the engine will prevent spark(or is it crank) you must be in neutral.

 

[jimchere]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

I agree with JB, go the progressive route per the "engine won't start" thread. The neutral safety switch won't even let the engine crank over, at least that's with all the ones I've seen.

 

[steviecops]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Just to give you an update.<br /><br />I went out today with the intention of going through all the procedures that you advised me. I had my little bottle of pre-mix, etc. Before I began, I thought I'd try the engine first, as I'd freed up the control box yesterday by spinning the prop, but hadn't had time to re try starting the engine. (The gear lever had felt stiff, as if the boat was half in gear. A spin of the prop freed it up).<br /><br />Anyway, the engine started straight away. I ran it for about 30 minutes, and it didn't miss a beat. The idle was a bit rough, but so it was before this problem arose, but I let it idle for a good 15 minutes and it never stalled. I turned the engine off and let it sit for another 30 minutes, and then re-started it with no problem.<br /><br />I'll try it again tomorrow, but it seems to me that unless this is an intermitent electrical or fuel problem, it was the control box/gear lever that was preventing the engine from starting. I think that the engine became stuck half in gear whilst I was tilting and dropping it into the water butt and the cables got moved. Does this make sense?<br /><br />As for the brown waxy stuff that looks as if it had dripped from the top coil, I still don't have a clue about it. I felt both coils while the engine was warm and running, and neither was even warm to the touch. The head wasn't hot either, so it couldn't be radiated heat from the head that has done it.<br /><br />So thanks for all your good advice, I'm extremely grateful to you all. Hopefully, the problem is now sorted. If it occurs again, I'll post back on this thread.<br /><br />Thank you.<br />Steve

 

[SCO]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

the brown wax from the coil is the standard description of a coil meltdown. It was probably starting to fry but didn't go all the way...who knows. There is one other thing related to control boxes I have heard about, and that is a kill switch groundout. Sorry that I dont have a manual handy, but when you shut off the motor , the ignition is disabled. With the key on, the ignition is enabled . A failure here can cause the ignition to be disabled even with the key on. Get a clymers manual or other at your local boat shop, or make it easy on yourself and get it online from iBOATS, and it will have the wiring schematics that make this clear. Looks like a problem in that circuit, probably in the control box. Then again, it also sounds related to a neutral safety switch. Clymers again will detail that for your engine in the electrical schematic. You can do even better with a Johnson Service manual which you can get online. Good luck.

 

[steviecops]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Thanks SCO, I'm ordering a manual today.<br /><br />Any idea what would make the coil start to melt down?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve

 

[SCO]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

I forgot, will be in the manual, something like hooking up battery backwards or blowing a rectifier.

 

[steviecops]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Thanks SCO<br />As the manual won't be here for a few days yet, whats a rectifier, and would my motor run if I had blown one?<br /><br />As I mentioned, the engine is running fine now but I'm just a bit worried about the coil, and what has caused it to get hot at some time in the past.<br /><br />Thanks again<br />Steve

 

[SCO]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

A rectifier takes the alternating pulse from the stator and rectifies it into a direct current. That direct current charges the battery on mine, but your more modern engine I think has a more sophisticated alternator arrangement with better voltage control to the battery. Keep in mind that the power pack contains capacitors...you might be able to get a lethal shock...dont know, but play it safe and read manual for precautions. Try a search in this section for melted coil or dripping coil and I bet you get some answers. I just searched elsewhere on web and reconfirmed my recollection, a bad rectifier or loose connections to the battery will kill a stator. It sounds like you on the other hand have melting ignition coil...is that right? Does a spark plug wire go directly from this coil to the plug? If so that is an ignition coil.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

It will run if you have a good battery, it just won't charge the battery.

 

[steviecops]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Thats exactly right SCO, there is a plug lead coming out of the coil. The dripping seems to have happened around the edge of the coil, where the brown stuff looks as if it has been used to seal the unit. The bottom coil is fine.<br /><br />What does a rectifier look like on my engine, and where can I find it. I'd like to check them out before I venture out onto the water again. Is there a test I can do to see if my battery is being charged?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve

 

[steviecops]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

Right. Checked out electrics, and all seems fine.<br /><br />The problem seems directly related to a problem with the control box or gears or something. I went to start the engine again today, and it failed to start again, although I have a healthy spark on both plugs.<br /><br />I've found that after cranking the engine, the gear lever seems to get stuck, making it difficult to move into forward gear. If I free up the control box, either by spinning the prop, tilting the engine, or taking the control box apart, the gear lever returns to normal, ie, easy to move in and out of gear. I can lift the starting throttle lever and lower it, and still the gear lever remains normal. However, as soon as I crank the engine with the starting lever raised, the engine fails to start and the gear lever gets stuck again.<br /><br />As I've said, I'm getting a good spark but I'm not sure that fuel is being sucked into the cylinders because there seems to be pressure building up from the carbs back to the tank. Someone said this is normal if the floats are stopping the fuel from entering the carbs for some reason.<br /><br />I'm just completely stumped as to reason why there seems to be a direct link between the the engine not starting, and the gear lever getting stuck, and why cranking the engine seems to be making the gear lever stick.<br /><br />Has anyone come across this problem before, or does anyone have any ideas as to what could be happening?<br /><br />Sorry for being a nuisance, but I've tried the systematic approach and now I'm stumped.<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve

 

[rwise]

Re: Please help. Engine won't start, suspected fuel problem.

steviecops<br />I think you should look verrrrrry close at the ground\negative cable from the engine back to the batery. That sounds as though the current is going back through the cables. That would explain them freezing up when you try to start the engine, and maybe other strang stuf.<br />Richard