VRO system for '97 Johnson

[esiquiolazaro1971]

I am having an overhaul performed on my '97 Johnson 130hp engine. My mechanic is telling me I'd be better off shutting off my VRO system to my engine since it may have caused my original problems in the first place. Should I follow his advice or keep the VRO system activated?

 

[OBJ]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

Hey Red....welcome to the iboats forums.<br /><br />Let's ask, first, why the engine was overhauled. One cylinder gone, two? Please be specific as to what happened before the engine was taken to the wrench.<br /><br />Thanks.

 

[esiquiolazaro1971]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

I had one cylinder go out (#4). The others are OK. There was never an oil warning signal. If disconnecting it willhelp me out in the long run, I'll do it. I am just hoping to avoid having to mix the oil myself.

 

[OBJ]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

I would be hisitant to say the VRO system was at fault. If it was, then more than just one cylinder would go due to lack of proper lube. Generally speaking, when one cylinder goes, it's due to carbon, over heat, ect. Your VRO is the updated version. Personally, I would have the alarms check out as well as the entire fuel system and keep it.

 

[DJ]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

Red Killer 1971,<br /><br />It is IMPOSSIBLE for the VRO to cause one or two pistons to fail. It mixes in the oil, before the carbs.<br /><br />I would have serious rewservations about that mechanic. He obviously doesn't understand how the system works.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

If you mixed your own gas and oil and you had a bad cylinder, what would you think of your mechanic if he told you that you did not add oil to the gas? Wouldn't you think the whole motor would be trashed from lack of lube? The "VRO" does the same as your pre-mixing, it combines the fuel and oil, then sends the indentical mixture to each of the carbs. Any trained and knowledgable Johnson-Evinrude mechanic knows that. Since it was not a VRO problem, that is why there was no alarm signal.<br /><br />I would recommend installing a new "VRO" with your rebuild, just like installing a new oil pump on a 4 stroke when rebuilding. Be sure to find out what caused the piston to "go" in the first place, and correct it, or you may lose it again after the rebuild.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

On top of what everyone else says, make sure the Carbs are(Were) rebuilt when they did the overhaul. As it's a good possibility that is where the problem lies...

 

[esiquiolazaro1971]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

Thanks for the advice. The OH has not yet been finished, so I'll make sure to ask about the carb. Anything else I should ask about? I am now going to make sure we try and find out how this happened in the first place.

 

[hookedonjc]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

I am in the middle of a rebuild on my 120 and I had the same question about the VRO but after getting a good understanding how it works I know it wasent my problem. I only burnt on piston also and the guys on iboats forum seem to lean toward a carb problem for me. I just wish there was a better indication to detect a carb problem than a burnt piston. <br />Good Luck on yours<br />Hooked

 

[rodbolt]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

hello<br /> yep keep the VRO. works well.<br /> make sure all the alarm circuits,over heat sensors and oil sensors are working as designed. replace the VRO its almost at that age. replace the filter in the oil tank. clean the tank while its apart. if you have the old hard vynil oil lines replace the entire pick up assy. but I am thinking the best thing to replace is the mechanic working on your rig.<br /> I find way more troubles with people that premix than with oil injection. good luck and keep posting

 

[walleyehed]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

I find way more troubles with people that premix than with oil injection.

Pretty harsh statement considering the VRO's STILL fail WITHOUT stupid people mixing the oil.<br /> If you have any common sense, remove the VRO, and the sensors, horns, bells and whistles, and pre-mix accordingly and have piece of mind.<br />And another thing....a failed VRO CAN stick one piston....with clearances not being precisly exact, all it takes is one ring with .001 less end-gap, or a cylinder that is .0005 tight, or a piston being .0003 too large.<br />Dealers don't always understand the "REAL" reason of failure in many situations. Not every piece in that engine is exactly the same, ESPECIALLY a factory engine. That pump is more moving parts and therefor more prone to failure, don't care what the excuse is for keeping it, it'll NEVER be more reliable than pre-mix.

 

[Mark R Groves]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

While I realize the VRO has probably gotten a worse reputation than it deserves, I'm firmly in the pre-mix camp. In my opinion technology is great, as long as it provides a significant improvemnet in the functionality of a machine. Often times features added to a product are another, often unnecessary, bell or whistle added to give the product a marketing edge over the competition. Think of all the devices that have fallen into this category, cell phones (do we really need cameras on them), VCRs (very few folks could ever program one properly), etc. ... I feel to a certain degree the VRO systems fall into this category. I believe they were indroduced as an answer for oil injection technology introduced by the Japanese manufacturers during the 80's. Unfortunately, I believe the benefits of having this system did not outweigh the disadvantages. The VRO pump was just another component to increase the parts count of OMC motors while inherently increasing the probability of failure. Was pre-mixing oil really that difficult or inconvenient? I never thought it was a problem remembering to add oil while filling the tanks. Maybe for some folks this was a bigger issue than I realize.<br /><br />Anyway, here's my question...<br /><br />It is often said on this site that if a single cylinder fails the VRO is not at fault since the VRO pre-mixes the fuel received by all cylinders. When a lubrication related faiure occurs, typically, do all cylinders in the power head show signs of damage? I'm questioning if during a lubrication related failure (i.e. VRO failure), is it possible the "weakest link" will fail first. When I say the weakest link this would mean the cylinder/piston most prone to failure due to many possible variables such as cooling, prior wear or damage, carbon etc. So, is it possible, when this "weakest link" cylinder fails, the engine dies with damage to the weakest cylinder but the other cylinders do not show similar damage. Thouhts on this matter would be appreciated.<br /><br />MG

 

[rodbolt]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

hello<br />premixing small tanks is easy. try pre mixing for tanks larger than 60 70 gallons or for a pair when the fuel tank is 150 to 180 gallons or in the case of some I work on it has two 155 gallon fuel tanks.remember once you premix it with oil it will start forming sludge in 30 to 60 days. most premix people fail to properly mix the fuel before adding it to the tank. I see this all year long. there is a post here on iboats where someone put in gas then oil took off and promptly blew an engine.I looked at a fresh rebuilt95 225 that the VRO had been removed. blue crank squished and melted rod bearing cage. mind you I obseved this through the hole in the crankcase cover. The man carefully explained how he had added 2 gallons of oil to the tank after carefully adding 100 gallons of gas. problem was none of the oil mixed with the fuel. its all at the tank bottom. if your lucky when ya do this it will pick up a large slug of oil and kill the engine. this happens 5 or 6 times a year. if I am mixing 6 to 12 gallons at a time premix is ok. otherwise overall I typically see less outboard problems with oil injection and thermostats in place than oil injection and t-stats removed. but it is a subsystem and like all subsystems demands periodic replacement/cleaning of parts. if the VRO pump is 6 years old change it.<br /> if the old oil lines are hard as a brick replace the pickup assy. put if you insist on premix go lean and not rich or better yet learn to mix in a seperate container so you can get it right time after time.without looking at the piston I cant say why it failed. check for excessive carbon in the ring grooves. normally a lack of oil will cause blue marks on the rod and center main bearings and journals. and normally it zaps all of them not just one. that is why when I test a motor and determine it is smoked I drain the carbs in a clean towel or container and look for oil, trash and water. VRO like all the rest, will pump water as well as oil.most VRO failures I see are customer neglect not design flaw. anyway sorry for the long post.<br /> good luck with the rebuild but dont cut corners

 

[seahorse5]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

I'm with Rodbolt on premixing, especially in big rigs. Most of the premix problems I see are when someone's brother-in-law does not mix the oil in the gas, and the customer has a blown motor. On the big rigs, most of the time it is excessive smoking and carbon buildup due to richer and richer fuelil ratios.<br /><br />It's been well over 15 years since I've seen a VRO fail and trash an engine completely. Most problems seem to be over-oiling or false alarms. If someone took the time to see how the work internally, they would understand that it is very simple and reliable system. That Bass and Walleye Magazine and Trailer Boats ran stories about the VRO and all the "myths" about them.

 

[dfish77777]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

This is heading toward my quandry. I just biught a boat with a '97 150 ocean pro, 278 hours runtime. If I disable the VRO, how exactly would I accuratly premix? Getting 50:1 is not rocket science, but with a 90 gallon tank what to do, mix and dump, mix and dump. Maybe a giant cocktail swivel stick through the gauge fitting Being a '97, after I ran out the gas on board I was leaning towards removal, but am worried about getting a good premix, as well as how many trips I take to run out the old oil before it starts to gel. Or do I keep the system, or update with a new pump, or buy a new pump and store it in vacuum wrap on board? Also mine has the hard plastic lines, I have already inspected them and they look sound, but should I be changing them for a different type of line??? Last (sorry guys), does anyone mfg a type of vortex funnel that could be used at fill up to get thorough premixing right at the fill nozzle, a 90 gallon tanks just to much to shake vigorously, even on these bad roads in Ca. Thanks for indulging me, Don

 

[dfish77777]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

Forgive the previous typo's, meant to preview and hit add reply instead. Maybe mixing 50:1 will be to much for me

 

[rodbolt]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

hello<br /> you got it. mix and pour for 90 gallons. time your done ya smell like a refinery and the water around you has such a clean blue sheen . keep some Dawn dishwashing liquid . if your nervous replace the pump and pickup assy. the pickup is about 79 dollars and comes with instructions. the pump is about 260 and should come with instructions. its a bunch but the piece of mind is worth it. good luck and keep posting

 

[seahorse5]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

dfish7777, <br /><br />A '97 oil tank does not have the hard plastic fuel line, but the 1/4" ID rubber line with the yellow printing on it. Is the boat a different year than the motor? An older tank with the smooth plastic line will not work on the newer '96 and up System Check (4 lite) alarms due to different electronics in the tank pickup.<br /><br />For thorough mixing of fuel and oil when pre-mixing, use a large diameter (12") funnel and slowly mix the oil with the swirling fuel as you fill the tank.

 

[Mark R Groves]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

Yea… I suppose if you are need to pre-mix 500 gallons of fuel on a dual 250hp type ocean going rig it would be a pain in the a##. Maybe the VRO does make sense for these applications. But for me, and my lowly 16 gallon tank equipped inland fishing rig, I never need to get nervous, as peace of mind comes from knowing my lubrication system can't fail.

 

[dfish77777]

Re: VRO system for '97 Johnson

Seahorse, you're right, I'm wrong, soft rubber, looks to be in good condition. I was stupidly looking at trim tab hyd lines. Is this considered one of the newer models, or an older model. I have not run the boat yet, bought it @ a month ago, and plan on getting out in the next two weeks. Thanks & Happy New Year,<br /> Don