Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

[jennifer]

Our boat ran fine last week with the occassional problem of it stalling when you would move it from neutral into gear. This weekend, it would not let you put it into gear with out stalling. The mechanic just called to say that the will need to redo the PowerHead/bore/replace all pistons/pump in order to fix it. Aproximate cost is 3000 dollars! The mechanic claims it is the result of a failed oil pump. Could this be true? Are there any questions I should ask the mechanic to make sure he is doing the right thing? Is it worth the money to have this work done or should I toss this one and get a new one?<br />Should Johnson hold any liability as there were no alarms or warning to let us know the oil pump failed!! <br />Desperate in cottage country......<br />BTW our friend with the same motor and same mechanic just had the same job done last week.

 

[blgrams]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

It is ablolutley true that a failure in the oil side of the VRO can cause all the failures listed by the mechanic. best and easiest cure if you are confident in your ablilties is to purchase and install a rebuilt power head then replace your VRO with a standard fuel pump and start mixing your oil into the gas manually. Then if the fuel pump fails the motor does not continue to run without oil. I just finnished rebuilding my 40 HP the VRO unit would have cost $250.00 (US$) and the standard fuel pump with gasket and new fuel lines was $60.00 (US$)and the conversion took 1 hr. including removing the oil tank and VRO pump which can be left in place and bypassed.<br /><br />Bruce

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Welcome!<br /><br />First tell us what motor you have.<br /><br />In the meantime lets not jump to conclusions as your mechanic may have. Go look at the motor. If the oil pump failed (most likely you do not have a VRO but rather a straight oil pump) there will be absolutly no oil in the motor anywhere. Very rare. <br /><br />Have him show you exactly what damage was done. Depending on what motor you have we may be able to pin point the cause a bit closer.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Sure seems if it was bad enough to rebuild the engine, it wouldnt have been running at all. I think your mechanic is late on his BMW payment.

 

[james roach]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

It sure sounds like you are getting swindled. It's too early to assume you need a rebuild. Get a second opinion from a different mechanic unaffiliated with the first. From what you said I might look at the carbs first.

 

[james roach]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

In the mean time, premix your gas and get a manual.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

First read topic " F " in the Engine FAQ's section of the forum. Perhaps you may want to print it out and show it to your "mechanic".<br /><br />Imagine what a motor would look inside if someone forgot to mix the gas and oil and ran it for a while. The whole motor would be trashed internally and not rebuildable. The crankshaft and bearings would turn blue from the excessive friction and lack of lube. ALL the pistons would be scored all the way around and the same with the cylinder walls. Every connecting rod bearing area would be blued and the needle bearings would be "melted" together and "squashed" from the high heat of friction. All in all, there would be nothing to rebuilt inside the block as everything would be "totaled".<br /><br />The oil system has an alarm that sounds off if the pump senses a lack of oil pressure as it mixes oil inside your fuel pump chamber. IF the alarm horn did not sound off, chances are it was not a pump problem.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Seahorse hit it on the head.

ALL the pistons would be scored all the way around and the same with the cylinder walls.

The oil pump is not selective to any one cylinder. It affect all the cylinders if it fails. If you rebuild, I would pre-mix my own from now on and nix the VRO... Definetly get a second opinion..

 

[jennifer]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Originally posted by Dhadley:<br /> Welcome!<br /><br />First tell us what motor you have.<br /><br />In the meantime lets not jump to conclusions as your mechanic may have. Go look at the motor. If the oil pump failed (most likely you do not have a VRO but rather a straight oil pump) there will be absolutly no oil in the motor anywhere. Very rare. <br /><br />Have him show you exactly what damage was done. Depending on what motor you have we may be able to pin point the cause a bit closer.

We have a 90hp 1990 Johnson outboard motor.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Just want to add to my previous post about your motor:<br /><br />If all four cylinders and pistons are scored, but the crankshaft bearings are not "blued", then your motor suffered a major overheat problem, of ran lean on all 4 cylinders, possibly due to gummed up carbs. <br /><br />Lean running usually shows up with scoring at the exhaust port area of the cylinder with very little damage around the rest of the piston and wall.

 

[voodoo]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Do what Rick said OR take the 5 minuites and pull the heads off yourself....the damage should be obvious.<br /><br />$3000 is the cost of a reman'd powerhaed plus his time...You could shave that down to $2300 if you can change it yourself..<br />Question is is a 1990 worth it

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

in 1990 the oil pumps had a no oil alarm. its up to the consumer to test the alarms periodically. most older johnrudes I work on have dead horns when they come in. the VRO is a very reliable system. you should replace the pump every 6 years or so. clean the tank every year or so. inspect the older versions for the oil lines getting to hard.<br /> I get sick of people bashing VRO when its customer neglect and not an engineering problem<br /> I have a crabber/netter customer that I built a frankenstien 140 looper using an old small bore 120 block and parts from an 88 and an 89 140 that is still VRO and has run just a tad over 13 thousand gallons of gasoline since the summer of 1998. that is why I build motors for some of the crabbers. its because they save all fuel reciepts and I get an idea of how well repairs are holding up. I have actually seen more power heads blown with incorrect premix than actual VRO failures since about 1985<br /> the first years of VRO were a bit ugly.<br /> if it were an actual oil failure odds are the crank and rods would be toast.<br /> as you kept trying to run it I would guess you had a fuel issue not an oil issue and most ill-trained techs will blame the VRO pump just cause its easy. from your post it sounds like the motor was telling you it was sick and you paid no heed. a sick motor will die very rapidly without a DR.<br />the 90 hp crossflow is about as proven a motor as one could ask for. if you care for it it will run thousands of hours. neglect it and it wont go 20.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[texas_whaler]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

I had my VRO disconnected but I don't see where my mechanic added a standard fuel pump to it?? Is this normal??<br /><br />Matt

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Texas_whaler,<br /><br />The VRO was designed to run as a regular fuel pump with pre-mix by removing and capping off the oil hose and inlet fitting. You also have to disconnect the VRO wiring to the alarm system.

 

[stairliftoheaven]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

johnsonjen, <br /><br />a quick way to find out the state of your bores is to do a compression test.

 

[steam_mill]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Johnsonjen:<br /><br />I see you are from Toronto like me. If your motor was running, I find it hard to believe that your VRO completely quit. You would see heat damage on the head.<br /><br />Sounds more to me like you have lost a cylinder: bad compression due to carbon? broken ring? Maybe you have bad spark...<br /><br />The mechanic may indeed be right but then again he may be wrong. <br /><br />I don't think I would be spending $3000 on repairs on a 14 year old motor. <br /><br />I would try a differnt mechanic.....<br /><br />Where are you located. I'm in Etobicoke but of course my boats are serviced at the cottage.<br /><br />Let us know what happens.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Oil pump failed 1991 Johnson outboard

Johnsonjen,<br /><br />If you can get down to the Kingston area, see Brown's Marine there. Dave Brown is one dealer that knows his stuff and that you can trust.<br /><br />Good luck.