86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

[marinemech]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

with moter running at or near idle about to stall try just turn key to crank position (just a quick touch as this is hard on starter drive) does moter come back to life?i think your moter has quick start??<br />if moter does contiue to run check ignition timing see if its close to specs if not remove flywheel and check center hub for slippage.<br />new thought:with moter runnig try pushing key in as it trys to stall if it keeps running could be lean on idle circut jets could be mixed up<br />is engine syncronized properly?

 

[v12mac]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

I have brand new (QL77JC4) installed .030 . When motor was running it had NGK’s that I took to the parts store, they crossed ref them and gave me L77JC4 after reviewing my manual and a post here I went out and got the Q plugs and put them in. Bulb is very firm – gas in the carbs and lines.<br /><br />I don’t know if I can hit the starter at idle, since it will only run for 1 or 2 seconds if started at idle. But I’ll give it a try tonight. What is Quick Start? My manual doesn’t have an index so looking that up may be tough.<br /><br />Hitting the primer doesn’t seem to help. I am getting lots of smoke and little spots of gas bubbling up after it runs for 10 seconds with or without the primer being activated.<br /><br />Could the sync get out of whack or the flywheel slip sitting at the beach? <br /><br />Mac

 

[james roach]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

First of all clean your plugs. It sounds like they may be fouled already. Then put the red lever up on the primer celenoid and pump it 15 times or so. Then crank your engine. Once it cranks, turn the red lever back down. When you put the lever back down it should imediately run better. While the motor is running, moniter the status of the primer bulb. If it goes flat while running, pump it back up and look towards your fuel pump. Make sure you do this with fresh gas and 50-1 oil. Once you get it running, make sure you are retaining spark once the engine warms. do a de-carb to see if you can get the compression around 100. Been there done this already. 1987 200 VRO Johnson (runs like a top).

 

[james roach]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

You should be doing this out of the water on the muffs.

 

[v12mac]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Thanks for the input, I know the fuel pump is good / brand new and I am running from a jerry can on the dock. <br /><br />Couldn’t be a fowled plug problem since I put in new plugs 2 days ago with no change in operation.<br /><br />I have compression, fuel and spark. There must be an issue of when these things are happening?? <br /><br />Mac

 

[K Hultgre]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

When you shoot premix into the carbs and it fires up then dies, what happens if you shoot premix in the carbs right away and try to restart? <br />What happens if you try to keep spraying premix into the carbs when its running?<br /><br />When you rebuilt the carb did you spray carb cleaner through each orifice and make sure it found an exit (I then spray the other direction to try and make sure any particles are gone). <br /><br />It's possible the main tank is contaminated and or the original carb rebuild did not get everything.<br /><br />my 0.02

 

[v12mac]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Pre mix makes it fire right up. I can’t get back there to shoot more in while it is running since it stalls out so quickly.<br /><br />Carbs:<br />All passages are clear:<br />2 small tubes and the side compartment<br />2 jets <br />1 jet in the back of the carb <br />1 high speed orifice and the jet behind the drain<br />new floats and needle valves.<br /><br />These were the cleanest carbs I have ever seen. I think they were cleaned before the sale.<br /><br />Tank can’t be contaminated as I am running from a brand new jerry can on the dock. <br /><br />I am starting to think the pre-mix test has sent me in the wrong direction. Could a weak spark only ignite in a fuel rich environment? How could timing be related to this problem? And what is Quick Start?<br /><br />Could this thing be shutting it’s self off?<br /><br />Mac

 

[Reel Appeal]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Do your carbs have drain screws on the bottom?If they do,prime the motor and back them out to see if fuel comes out.Check each one.<br />One or more of the floats on the carbs could be hanging up keeping the needle valve(s) closed not allowing fuel to enter the bowls.Tap each carb bowl lightly couple times.<br />You seem to have compression and spark but not getting fuel if the pre-mix squirt works.

 

[james roach]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Just because your plugs are brand new does not mean that you have not fouled them already. Take them out and see if they are covered in oil. I am starting to expect a couple of your carbs myself but eliminate the obvious first.<br />Your motor does not have quick start. Quick start will make it run at a higher idle for a few minutes until it warms up. If it fires right up when you spray premix in there then you are having a fuel delivery problem. Something has been overlooked. <br /><br />Are you running an in-line fuel filter on your gas line? If you had crap in your original tank, a low jet or 2 can close up after seconds of operation. I found this out on the water and after pulling a carb I just cleaned, I found a piece of welding wire in the carb. It was not there minutes earlier. I then installed an in-line filter and did not have any more problems. The primer celenoid on my 1987 200 HP Johnson makes it very hard to start cold unless I do the following:<br />Before I leave the house, I raise the hood on the motor and flip the red lever up on the primer celenoid. I then pump the fuel bulb 15 times or so. Next I flip the lever back down and squeeze the bulb another time or 2. I fasten the cover back down and drive the 3 miles to the ramp. If I do this, a motor that would have taken 30 minutes to start otherwise cranks the first time the fly wheel turns around. It does not matter if it has been 1 week or 2 months since I last ran it. The motor cranks right up the rest of the day. Fix your fuel delivery problem and get to know your "new" old motor and it will make you happy. Sorry for the long post

 

[james roach]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

If you are running on the dock, dont be afraid to open up the throttle half way or so when you first crank it. You dont want to open it up not being in gear but use that throttle to your advantage. I am taking special interest in your problem because I was in your exact situation when I bought my motor used 3 years ago. I was ready to unbolt the motor and leave it on the side of the road. I figured out my cold starting problem and its like I have a new motor now. I assume you are using fresh-new gas?

 

[v12mac]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

James, thanks for the ideas but I don’t think this is a cold start problem since I had started this thing cold 5 occasions after I purchased it with no problem. The main thing here is the engine ran fine until something happened that day at the or on the way to the beach.<br /><br />The carbs are clean, I pulled them again yester day (they are in my garrage now) and they are clean. Gas is in the bowls via checking drain and peaking in the side plate. As I have said before nothing but brand new gas from a new tank through new lines and a new OMC under hood filter have touched this thing since I started messing with this. Brand new plugs made no difference.<br /><br />I think the pre-mix shot in the carbs test may have sent me in the wrong direction.<br /><br /><br />I have been running johhnrudes 2-stroke outboards since I was a kid so I a familiar with most of the cold start tricks. Something is broken here.<br /><br />Mac

 

[james roach]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Please let us know what the fix is. Spark + Gas = a running motor. If you have CONTINUOUS spark, then you have a fuel delivery problem. If you are in Naples you may have bigger problems than this boat anyway. Good Luck, i'm going to bow out of this one.

 

[Bradster941]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Geez v12mac <br /><br />I feel bad for you and all you've gone through.<br />I have one of those cheap Harbor Frieght gauges and don't trust it either.<br /><br />My 2 cents worth are these;<br /><br />Everything you posted points to a fuel air problem. <br /><br />First thing that comes to mind is that your float levels are wrong thus your running 30 secs. then dying.<br /><br />If not that, then maybe your (NEW) fuel pump. Re check that it is bolted down tight as it works off a crank case vacuum and a air leak will make it weak or non functional.<br /><br />Just a thought to confirm a fuel pump problem, did you try pumping the bulb and keeping it firm once it fires up.?.<br /><br />Now, and keep in mind this is just my 2 cents worth, if it's not a fuel delivery problem, and you obviously have spark, I would suspect you are sucking air. I had a motor do that once causing simular problems.<br />We used Monkey Snott to find the problem!<br />(That's a plyable yellow rubber like sealant made by 3M).<br /><br />Doing a section at a time, we applied it to anyplace it could suck air.<br />1 The seal area of the 2 block halfs.<br />2 Intake manifold<br />3 bleeder return lines, etc.<br /><br />We found the problem to be the top main seal under the fly wheel.<br /><br />Anyways, from what you have posted, we can elimenate electrical since you get it fired up with spraying premix in the carbs and having it run 30 secsonds.<br />1 more thought. Pump the bulb till firm, then let sit 15 minutes and see if it is still firm.<br />If so, then do the above. If not, there must be a leak.<br /> <br />When you find the problem, drink a beer, then post back and let us know what it was.<br />Good luck. Brad. <br /> <br />

 

[Reel Appeal]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

v12,Did this problem happen suddenly,like a stall out?Inspect the (reed valves) while the carbs are off if they are accessable.Could be broken.I would also be concerned about any original ignition parts on your motor.The powerpack may have went bad,stator,or even weak ignition coils.It's strange though if it fires on the pre-mix spray.

 

[Reel Appeal]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

v12,Did this problem happen suddenly,like a stall out?Inspect the (reed valves) while the carbs are off if they are accessable.Could be broken.I would also be concerned about any original ignition parts on your motor.The powerpack may have went bad,stator,or even weak ignition coils.It's strange though if it fires on the pre-mix spray.Powerpacks will fail with no warning...<br /><br />Sorry bout the double post.

 

[v12mac]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Thanks for the help, hope I didn't come off as a jerk. I am just going nuts trying to figure this out in between hurricanes down here. It is a bit stressful in SW Florida right now. No insurance on the boat, if it sinks then I’ll loose this battle to figure out what is wrong. That would tick me off more than loosing the boat!<br /><br />Reel Appeal, this thing ran fine to the beach. Swapped props, sat 3 hours and then it wouldn’t run. <br /><br />The one X factor is that I used the manual tilt release to lift the motor. This motor hadn’t trimmed / tilted in years…..<br /><br />Mac<br /> <br /><br />I wonder if FEMA would give me a no interest loan to buy a new motor if this thing sinks………

 

[v12mac]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

O.K. lets take a fresh look at what is happening now.<br /><br />Engine fires Revs for 10-20 seconds and dies. <br /><br />I have noticed fuel is pooling up on the front lip of the carb. I am not sure if it is overflowing from the bowl or if is running forward from the high-speed jet.<br /><br />Could I have the wrong carb kit in this thing? My receipt shows part number 439079 as the carb kit. My motor is a J225TXCD<br /><br />Mac<br /><br />P.S. I’ll send a box of Omaha steaks to whom ever can figure this out.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

V12MAC<br />Sometimes it hurts to be me,but I'm here in Ma. and not feeling too bad.Must be your turn.Oh well.<br />(sorry,I know it's bad where you are)<br />Your engine needs the primer to start.After that if the primer still puts fuel into the engine,it will quit quick.<br />Try crimpiing the line feeding the primer.Start the motor by 50:1 or carb cleaner sprayed into the carbs.If it stays running,the primer is bad,or a shorted wire is supplying 12v all the time to it.<br />DHP

 

[onespeed]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Just curious, Maybe bad "seats" where the new needle valves are "measuring"? It sounds like its not a lack of fuel seeings how theres lots of smoke and then fuel bubbles in the afterwash, perhaps a "lack of air" to fuel ratio causing her choke to death? If you want to try the spraying of test mix into the carb from the drivers seat get a turkey baster and connect it to a length of clear plastic tubing (pre-primed with mix)attached to the carb with a clothes pin, start it up then just before you know its about to die, pump on the baster. If there is a butterfly, are you positive its not closing after the start-up and possibly causing a flood? Just for grins and giggles, try your way one more time and after it dies, pull a few plugs JUST to see if they're wet. Just my shadetree imput,,, Terry

 

[clanton]

Re: 86 Johnson 225 Troubble shooting, Fires revs dies FIXED!!!

Where is the boat located in Naples?