is oil mix problem?

[sr1967]

hello,againg i did the spark test as i was told and i did saw spark when trying to start.this is a 1972 johnson 2cycle 2hp motor(manual start.pull).now i am comfuse with the oil fuel mix,please bare with me,i am a newbie at this.the instruction on the motor is :1/6 pint(1 to 50 ratio)to a gallon of regular gasoline,now the 2cycle oil bottle i got is 8OZ,how much of the 8OZ do i put into the gasoline gallon?.also there is a low speed an a high speed knobs.turn left for rich and right for lean,the question is how much do i turn these knob to L/R.if i turn all the way to left side the knob get unscrew?.i am trying to make this motor run and after doing the spark test the only thing i can think is oil/fuel mix,i keep pulling and pulling and motor will not run..<br />i thanks you for any answer

 

[87Aggie]

Re: is oil mix problem?

You stated it right in your thread, one sixth of a pint to one gallon of gas. In other words, one pint to six gallons of gas. You have half a pint of oil (8 oz), which will do three gallons of fuel. So you will need to use a third of your 8 oz for one gallon of fuel (2.66666667 oz.) It's a ratio thing.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: is oil mix problem?

It's probably not the oil mix that's not causing it to fire, silron. You would have to be pretty far off...<br /><br />Did you happen to try out JBs suggestions in the 'Outboard won't start FAQ'? Particulairly the part about squirting premix down the throat out of an old windex bottle to bypass the entire fuel system, including the carb? There's no sense pulling your arm off - try to diagnose instead. If it doesn't fire in a pull or two, it's not going to fire on the twentieth either.<br /><br />Also, try to rig up a spark gap, and make sure it can jump 3/8". This is really important since a really common problem with these engines is where the spark will only jump a little, spark plug sized gap. Under compression it fails.<br /><br /> Joe Reeves post on how to setup those mixture controls. Click here.<br /> Outboard won't start FAQ, click here.<br /> <br /><br />Good luck! And stop pulling your arm off! <br /><br />PS - please reply to this post rather than starting a new one. It's a lot of work for us to track down your other post and peice it together, and more trouble for future readers. Thanks!

 

[sr1967]

Re: is oil mix problem?

how do i Squirt some fuel mix into the carb,is all close,do i need to take the screw out to open the carb,also when you say to rig up spark,you mean ,using a spark plug gap setter to see that the gap is right?

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: is oil mix problem?

To spray fuel mix down the carb's throat, start by putting a little mixed fuel and oil in a spray bottle. Like a windex type bottle, or some sort of 'mister'. Stay away from the Wife's perfume bottles though. Then open the throttle to the start position, and open the choke (the choke enriches the fuel/air mix, and you'll be doing that manually). Then mist a squirt or two of premix into the carb (where the choke plate and throttle plate is) and quickly give the pull cord a yank.<br />Naturally, you're going to have to remove the tank and face-plate and whatever else is in your way to get at the carb.<br /><br />As for testing the spark, they sell little 'ignition testers' at auto parts places on which you can adjust the gap, the idea being to see if you can create a 3/8 inch long spark or not. Any way that you can set this up yourself will work fine too. This is not setting the gap on the spark plug.<br /><br />There's some good suggestions on how to make or obtain one at the following thread:<br /> Spark Tester discussion, click here.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[sr1967]

Re: is oil mix problem?

HELLO,AGAIN,thanks for the help<br />i had check the oil/fuel mix and did as i was told,but still motor not starting,now after i pull to start all i see is abit of smoke coming from the opening in the part right before the propeller,(i gues that is the exaust),also a bit of fuel.it does that rith after i pull the starter.i am about to open the carb,but first i am checking with you guys

 

[fireman57]

Re: is oil mix problem?

Are you trying to start this engine out of water? The reason I ask is that you saw smoke coming from next to the propeller. Never start it out of water or you will ruin your water pump and possibly your engine. When you tested for spark did it jump 7/16 to 1/2 inch? Was it bright blue? If it was yellow your spark is not strong enough. After you pull it a few times pull the plug and see if it is wet. If it is then you are getting fuel. You probably are due to rebuild the carb and would suggest that you do. Make sure you get the jets cleaned well. Soak them and then blow them out good with compressed air. My guess is that you will also need a new impeller in your water pump.

 

[sr1967]

Re: is oil mix problem?

this motor have not run yet.i think this is an aircooled motor,not sure.and yes the plug is wet after pulling couple of time,i got me a adjustable ingnition spark lug tester,did the test using the setting recomended(minimun set 17-20)and not blue spark,went to 8-10 and saw a spark but not all the time i pulled.also tested with 0-5 and di saw spark.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: is oil mix problem?

Silron - all Johnny/Rudes are water cooled engines, your little 2hp included. Like fireman57 said, you've got to get that lower unit in water before you try to start it. The water needs to cover the joint between the lower unit and the midsection.<br /><br />This ignition system won't put out the sort of spark an automotive one will, so the spark testers recomendations could be off. How far apart are the points in it when it's set in the 8-10 gap?

 

[sr1967]

Re: is oil mix problem?

i did try to start the motor several time with no water,is this why the motor did not ran?

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: is oil mix problem?

No.<br />But it's a Good Thing it didn't. The water pump impeller will fry in a few seconds of running dry...

 

[sr1967]

Re: is oil mix problem?

hello,sorry for so many question,trying to use this motor before the ice/snow come,but so far not fix.<br />here is a sumary of what i had done so far.<br />use the JB instructions,did the carb bypass,also did the spark check,and made sure the gap is .030,but this motor(1972 johnson 2cycle,manual start)will not run.<br />these are things i did notice.<br />1-carb seemed to be sending fuel ok<br />2-did the test for spark with a adjustable ingnition spark plug tester,if i put the 2 point in the tester like this much - i will see a light blue spark,but if i put the tester point this much -- will see spark but not all the time i pull.if i move the point this much --- no spark.<br />3-did notice that when i take out the plug after i try to start,the plug was wet but not all the time(did remove the plug several times)to see if fuel was passing.<br />4-i did remove the plate cover on the right side of motor,notice that the chamber was wet with fuel,also that threre was derty with blak dirt.<br /><br />at this point i am thinking to rebuild the carb,and see how to get a better spark.please let me know if this make sence,also if can tell me how ro increase the spark.

 

[sr1967]

Re: is oil mix problem?

one last thing,i noticed that the plug wire is a bit crack at the end that goes inside under the motor,

 

[fireman57]

Re: is oil mix problem?

You definitely will want to rebuild the carb. It is an easy task if you take your time. Make sure that all the jets are perfectly clean. If you need to soak them overnight to loosen stuff then do it. After that you can blow them out with compressed air. If you have a brave friend he can hold your plug wire about 12mm or 7/16 inches from the block with a pair of insulated pliers. Spark needs to be a strong bright blue when you pull the cord. Spark needs to jump ---- about this much. If not then you have a bad powerpack or bad connection on it. Remove it and clean all connections. If spark still does not jump enough then replace it.

 

[sr1967]

Re: is oil mix problem?

thanks for answering Fireman57,i will rebuid the carb,for that i need a carb kit,<br />how to know the carb numbers to buy kit?<br />also about that chamber i mentioned in previous post,do i have to clean it(the chamber with a cover on right side of motor,you can see the piston)?<br />and where can i get the kit,the wire to the plug,powerpack etc?<br /><br />thanks

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: is oil mix problem?

Silron - your going to want to get that carb kit from your local Johnny/Rude dealer. The kits sold online and at NAPA are missing an important peice. The dealer kit is only a dollar or two more. The Part Number is 398532, and it should be under $20.<br /><br />But fireman57 is right about the spark - it's probably the reason your engine isn't starting. It should run for a few seconds when you spray gas/oil mix down the throat. That spark won't be jumping at all under compression, and it sounds like it's too weak to start anything anyway. <br />Have a look at your original post (Click here) and follow the info I gave you about popping off the flywheel, and tell us what you find. Chances are the ignition coil has cracks - but new ones are cheap. Iboats (PN 18-5181) or your local dealer can fix you up with a new one. Iboats sells them for around $17 each.<br />You're going to want to replace that spark plug wire too. So get a foot or two of metal core 7mm spark plug wire from your dealer too. You can reuse the spark plug boot at the end if it's in good shape.<br />Tell us what you find underneath there.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[fireman57]

Re: is oil mix problem?

Silron make sure you do not use automotive spark plug wires. Get what Paul suggests. If you do these things you will have a fun little engine for years to come.

 

[sr1967]

Re: is oil mix problem?

hello.<br />i got the carb kit,also got the ingnition coil,and new plug wire.however still not run<br />can it be poor grounding,do i need to change the old wire that goes from the ingnition plate to the right side of motor.<br />how about the condenser and points,need new also?<br />i did adjust the point to 0.20(the points is the tip that goes near the center that turns)?<br />do the setting of low/high speed (closed the low and high speed knob to right side(lean)then made 1 1/2 turn to left for low speed,and 1 turn to left for high speed.<br />do not know what to do,seemed like some how gas and electricity are not mixing

 

[fireman57]

Re: is oil mix problem?

Did your new ignition coil come preassembled or did you have to put it together yourself? The reason I ask is because the nre ones from Bombardier have to be assembled. Measure the depth of the hole that your spark plug wire goes in and screw that wire in to that depth. The post inside is threaded. If you are off center a little bit then you still will have either no spark or weak spark. Have you tested again to make sure that you have a STRONG blue spark?