1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

[lightfootlogging]

Well, my trusty old Evinrude which I have owned for 15 years is now hard to start only when it is cold. The boat and motor have been in storage for about 10 years, but now I am using the boat and I am going to take the motor off of my existing runabout (73 Glaspar)and mount it on a new Smoker Craft 1860 Jon boat and mount a jet pump on the outboard. The problem is that it is a little finicky to start cold. It takes about 3 or 4 cycles of running the starter for about 5 - 6 seconds before she will fire up. The choke solenoid seems to be working fine. I have put in new plugs also. The problem is only when it is cold -- once the motor is warmed up, it starts immediately. I have run the motor now for about 10 hours over the past couple of months, and it always behaves this way. It makes me a little nervous -- especially since the new boat with this motor will be spending its first 3 months ferrying my logging crew to a remote island in Alaska.<br /><br />I am wondering if it could be an issue with the stator, or maybe a dirty key switch? I wouldn't think is would be a carberator prob. Any body got any ideas.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

I run a 1976 115Hp Johnson. The chokes have to close 100% for a good cold start. You can only check it by observation with someone hitting the solenoid switch.<br /><br />You also need a fully charged,powerful battery. <br /><br />No one I know of has gone to 100:1 on these motors: Stick to 50:1.<br /><br />I've used the Penzoil Synthetic Blend for the last two seasons, and I believe that it is better than regular TCW3 oil, plus I have had less plug fouling when trolling.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

You're trusting the lives of loggers on a thirty year old motor??? I think they need a new boss! I can see keeping such a motor going for pleasure and occasional use, but once you go commercial you're in a whole new ballgame. Get something new and trustworthy!!! Sorry but trusting such an old motor to stand-up to such a demand is the trust of a fool. I don't care if it sat 20 of those 30 years. Lives are in the balance when it comes to frigid Alaskan waters.

 

[lightfootlogging]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

I will check the choke plate for full closure.<br /><br />The boat will have a kicker motor -- loggers are used to risking their lives -- they do it every day under the towers and rigging (highest death rate of any occupation, and #1 injury rate). Bobing around with a dead motor in a protected bay in SE Alaska is a lot less dangerous than a day at work.<br /><br />Thanks for the advice

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

The 1973-77 V4s need more gas on the cold starts. There's a reason Johnson switched from chokes to spray primers a few years later.<br /><br />As Ezeke says, make sure the chokes slam 100% closed - 99.94% isn't enough. Adjust the linkage and move the solenoid in it's bracket to make it so. <br /><br />Also, set the idle start lever all the way up (forward).<br /><br />Logging is a strange business...most loggers I know would think you were pampering them if you even gave them oars...

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

You beat me to the punch on the re-post, lightfoot.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

Originally posted by lightfootlogging:<br /> -- loggers are used to risking their lives -- they do it every day under the towers and rigging (highest death rate of any occupation, and #1 injury rate). Bobing around with a dead motor in a protected bay in SE Alaska is a lot less dangerous than a day at work.

THEY NEED A NEW BOSS!!!<br /><br />That attitude gets people killed. Using that old pleasure motor for commercial duty in Alaskan waters is pure foolhardiness. PERIOD!!! You don't ADD to their peril you #@$%&^*! IT"S YOUR JOB TO MINIMIZE THE RISK. If you can't understand that, get into a different business and save some lives.

 

[lightfootlogging]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

Ledgefinder<br /><br />I will make sure that choke plate is closed -- and get back to y'all.<br /><br />Thanks for the support.<br /><br />Loggers are born not made. It is a passion -- an arcane profession with its roots in the frontiersmen of the American west. <br /><br />Your right -- they can't be pampered. <br /><br />My problem will be keeping the crew from faking motor problems just so they can catch a few Chinook, before work -- maybe I should buy that new motor to keep their production up. Nah -- given I am boss, I'll demand a salmon or two!

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

Logging is a throwback to when people used to work for a living...

 

[lightfootlogging]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

WillyB<br /><br />You must have worked for the government -- just spend $10K and send the bill to the taxpayers, eh? That type of money is not in the budget for this little 3 month project in a protected bay. <br /><br />Please try to remain civil -- you really have no clue about the situation.<br /><br />If you are going to use foul language, and be dis-respectfull, why don't you come on out to the show so you can say it to my face in person, rather than hiding behind the mask of cyber-space?

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

GtGrandfather logged off some of the Maine islands - mostly spruce. Used to run pulpwood up to Bangor in a schooner. I wonder what a loaded schooner looked like in a strong afternoon breeze. My Dad worked for him summers as a teenager, he said partly to keep an eye on the scalers - nothing's changed, eh?. He & some minister would row a dory back to the mainland, around five miles, for the weekends; my Dad to go to dances, and the other guy to do his Sunday preaching.

 

[lightfootlogging]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

Some of the technology has changed -- but loggers are loggers. Up every morning at 0400 - 2-3 hours each way in the crummy, and back after 1800 hrs -- 6 days/week and sometimes 7 in the fall. Float camps in Alaska, and running to town on Saturday afternoon to go to the taverns in Sitka and Ketchikan.<br /><br />Sounds like what your Dad was doing.<br /><br />Logging is the antithesis of, as one of my rigging slingers likes to put it "The Pussification of America".

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

You said it yourself lightfoot. Logging is one of the mose dangerous occupations there is. So is commercial fishing, and so is farming. That doesn't mean you throw common sense out the window just because those that choose to pursue such an occupation accept the risks. Safe reliable equipment doesn't mean taking your old skiboat motor and hanging it off the back of a vessel that is going to be life or death if weather turns and machinery fails on a more-than-likely overloaded boat. If you're on land, you huddle up somewhere until the storm passes. On the open water, that isn't much of an option. At least you have a kicker (how old is that?). I'm sure that will give your men great peace of mind when that 29 year old motor breaks a 29 year old part and there's nothing between them and their destination but 20 miles of 34 degree water and an approaching squall line on the horizon.<br /><br />If you're ever in my neck of the woods, please feel free to stop by and we'll "discuss" priorities on safety issues. I don't like yours. When a pleasure boater posts about something that might be unsafe, I'll be rather relentless on pointing out the error. Expect no mercy from me, sir. You are in a more responsible position. You should act more responsibly. If you can't afford to be in the business, please get out.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

The choke & full idle throttle things seem to be necessary on a lot of those 1973-77 V4s. I always feel funny revving a cold engine like that - the pistons in those big V4s are really loose - but that is what the factory manual says to do.<br /><br />If that doesn't fix it, post back. If you're getting only two cylinders, then all four kick in when you rev/warm it up a bit, likely one of the sensor coils on the timer base is getting weak. Each sensor runs two cylinders. Otherwise, could be dirty carbs, synch (that is, idle timing), charge stator starting to go, etc.. But the cold start problem, with the sneezing stops, 'have-to-crank it five times', etc. is pretty common on those & is related to getting enough gas to it on starting.<br /><br />I've got the woman for your rigger! Actually, she's married to one of my logger neighbors; she goes in after him & cuts up tops for firewood. No one can keep up with her, in spite of the fact that she's generally got a cigarette going. Kicker is she's HOT; looks kind of like Jane Fonda, only a little heavy through the shoulders.

 

[lightfootlogging]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

My rigging slinger is happily married too -- found a super tough great looking gal, who mountain climbs and snow boards with him on weekends and on vacations -- they are adrenline junkies.<br /><br />I'll let you know on the choke plate<br /><br />TX

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

What I say is obviously falling on deaf ears. At the very least I would like to address what steps you are taking to assure the reliability of that motor.<br /><br />Even though it sat for the last 10 years, that doesn't mean that the parts haven't deteriorated. Sure the wear factor is less than if it had been used all that time. But many parts deteriorate as a function of time as well as wear. The water pump impeller is definaltely one of those. Rubber deteriorates over time whether it's used or not. The water pump should be rebuilt and the fuel lines should be replaced.<br /><br />The fuel pump also has rubber parts in it. Fuel exposure accelerates that deterioration greatly. The fuel pump should be replaced. The floats were cork. The Shellac deteriorates over time and a float affected thusly can absorb gas over time and not float anymore. Such failures have a way of sneaking up on you and what ran fine two days ago won't even start now. That could leave those poor guys stranded if it happened while they were logging for a week.<br /><br />Definately change the gearlube keeping in mind that the seals are also rubber which deteriorates over time. Look at the seal behind the prop. If you can see deterioration, they're all that way. Lose the gearlube underway and you're gearcase is toast. I would recommend a synthetic gearlube as they stay more fluid at lower water temps. I would also highly recommend a reseal job.<br /><br />Those are a few. There are more areas you should be concerned about, but those are probably the highlights.<br /><br />I would also like to hear more about that jet pump. I didn't know any were available for a motor that old. If what you're looking at is for 1978+, it won't work. They look very much the same, but the mounting dimensions changed in 1978 and they're not at all interchangable.

 

[lightfootlogging]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

WillyB<br /><br />Thanks for the advice on the Water Pump, fuel hoses, lower end, etc.<br /><br />The issues with the lower unit are moot -- since it is being replaced with the brand spanking new jet drive from Outboard Jets.<br /><br />New water pump will go in with the new Jet unit. I got the last M series from the factory -- they had one left -- Outboard Jets in San Leandro shipped it to me on Friday -- should be here on Tuesday. I have already replaced all of the fuel hoses, fuel filter,and the lower main seal of the power head looks good -- I've already removed the motor in anticipation of the jet pump, I have also relplaced the thermostat ( whatever it is called - something therm -- I can't remember its name). Compression is equal on all four cylinders at 115. Engine has always run like a top. <br /><br />Your advice on the motor is not falling on deaf ears -- I appreciate your input. However, your diatribe on how to run my logging crew is. Lets stick to what we can discuss -- motors, and leave the issue of the crew at the dock.<br /><br />Thanks

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

The motor and the job are strictly secondary. The CREW is primary. Sorry, but their lives can easily depend on that motor. If it fails, they can die. There are few "injuries" when a boat motor fails in such unforgiving conditions. That usually results in death by the boatload. Frankly, if your crew's safety isn't your primary concern, please find a new line of work.<br /><br />Might a chartering service be a possiblity? My brother captained a boat in the Great Lakes that ferried a construction crew to one of the Apostle Islands on a lighthouse project. That wasn't one of the service's primary clients, but they sure had appropriate equipment because it was their business. And they were glad to have a few months of guaranteed income. Mostly they catered to more pleasure-seeking clientelle. I'll bet there are fishing charters around you. Might mean a whole lot fewer headaches for you, and leave your classic pleasure motor for pleasure use.

 

[Qld_Kev]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

As ledgefinder mentioned, I would check if the sensor coils are functioning correctly. Then also measure your charge coil.<br /><br />The first way to try this whilst someone is cranking the engine check for a spark at all plugs. <br /><br />My 55hp 1977 had hard to cold start (theres a post on here) I tried decarbon, carb clean, new plugs, choke fully closed, etc. With mine the power pack doesn't always work when cold, just dead as a doornail. Once you get the engine started the power pack works good for the day. I have cleaned the connection, mainly the earth, and currently its been running good.<br /><br />Maybe something else to try.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: 1976 RUDE 85HP Hard Starting only Cold

Years ago an OMC Tech told me the unadjustable sensor coils,can be.And this has worked for me several times.Pull the flywheel etc.and the actual sensors are each held in with two phillips screws.Loosen the screws,pry the sensor in towards the crankshaft,and retighten.<br />Obviously this is a test and not a cure,but if it makes the difference,you feel better about ordering that $$$ sensor assembly.<br /><br />DHP