Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch dog?

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coreyrosenfeld

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Mar 2, 2005
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I just bought my first boat! Like always when I get something new and have no clue I find a forum! Well, it's a old Cobia with what I have been able to look up and find out is a 1959 Johnson Super Seahorse 50. Model #V4SL-11B. I saw someone call it a "fat-"fifty and that seems to describe it well. Anyway, the guy I got it from says this about the engine..."The motor runs good but it has a bad clutch dog and won't shift gears." He has taken the very bottom piece off and given me the pieces that I guess have the problem. I will describe them as follows. Shaft piece about a foot long and looks like a gear. A round piece that goes on the shaft and has 4 ears that are worn down. Also, the very bottom piece that he took off is apparently missing now. Please help me get this thing fixed as my kids are VERY excited about the new boat in the backyard! The wife is not as excited! Thanks - Corey
 
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ledgefinder

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Congrats on the boat. Kids love them, and I find wives like them - when they're running. Lake Hartwell awaits, right?<br /><br />Best bet might be to upgrade, preferably to an Evinrude/Johnson from 1973 on up. The Fat50s are the first E/J V4s, and are very thirsty & heavy for their output. Also some of the early parts are difficult to find. You could buy even a late 1960s V4 (say 1966 80V4) in similar condition for around $50. This motor would be more powerful, lighter, and use less gas than the Fat50; so if you're going to fix up an old motor, I'd go for something a little stronger. Sell the 50 on eBay. <br /><br />I'd go for an E/J 65/70 hp triple (1973 and up, mechanical shift), or a Merc 50hp four (1969 and up is better, 1976 and up better still, but anything black is OK). Post back if you need more help.
 
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coreyrosenfeld

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Well, that's exactly what I didn't want to hear. But I really appreciate the honesty! I am just the kind of person that would rather go learn the hard way. I think it was the challange that possessed me to buy it in the first place. A few guestions and comments... First thing if I had to replace the engine, I don't know the rating on the boat.(on the plate its all worn except for a 5 right in the middle - I don't know if it was fifty something or something 5.)(It's a 1978? Cobia 15ft bowrider.) Also, I doubt I will ever take this particular boat on real big water. Me and the boys will probably use it on the lakes we fish with the biggest being a 100 or so acres. Most of which have idle only or no wake limits. If I was comfortable with the reliability I got from it I may try to stroll around the smaller areas of Lanier. Point being, it doesn't have to be strong or efficient just has to run. I will have a trolling motor and paddles(and two boys)for when we get stranded. If you still think new motor is the way to go, what HP and cost should I use and expect for the use I have described.<br /><br />Thanks again.
 
Chinewalker

Chinewalker

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Hi O.C.,<br /> I concur with Ledgefinder's thoughts on the Fat Fifty. Better to let a collector or someone seeking a vintage motor to match their vintage boat have it than to use it as an everyday runner. You'll have trouble keeping up with the fuel, particularly if the kids discover skiing, tubing, wakeboarding, etc.<br /> I have a particular soft spot for the OMC triples from '73 onwards. They have a great power-to-weight ratio, are fantastic on gas, and parts are still readily available for all major motor systems, and you can still get a mechanic to work on them for you - or - they're not so complicated that someone of modest mechanical ability and a decent set of tools can't handle most routine maintenance issues.<br /> If you truly want to win the wife over into this boat thing - go for a newer motor. One time paddling or getting towed back might be forgiveable, but when it happens several times (much more likely with the nearly 50-year old V4) you'll be on speaking terms with the couch in the basement...<br />- Scott
 
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coreyrosenfeld

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Man, you guys don't like my motor much do you. How can I not try to get this thing going with such an endearing name as the "Fat Fifty"... Had I known that was what it was before I bought it I would have paid much more than the $200 I paid for the boat, motor & trailer!
 
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Paul Moir

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Old Cobia, you paid $200 for a boat and trailer. Motor's run and come with lower units. :D <br /><br />It's not too often that you see here someone tell another to abandon an engine, especially in the Johnny/Rude forum and especially from regular 'old-aluminium' types like ledgefinder and Chinewalker. So you're hearing the straight deal from the sort of people who actually know these old engines.<br />If you can do with the 10 fewer horses, a '60s or '70s 40hp 2 cylinder might be the engine for you to get you on the water economically. Lots of them were made and they usually go cheap. The triples are great engines though if you can find one.<br /><br />If you're resolved to fix up the fat 50, then don't fool with the bits of the old lower unit, just start looking for a whole replacement one. There shouldn't be much trouble finding one thats in good shape.
 
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ledgefinder

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

I 2nd the 40hp recommendation. Great motors - reliable, simple to work on, and about $200 for a good one. If you go that way, get one with a mechanical shift lower unit, not electrical shift. 1962 or newer sound right?
 
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coreyrosenfeld

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Ok... I think I will heed your advice. "Fat-fifty still sounds cool but I just want to get this boat in the water by May. What is my lower unit now elec or mech shift? I think it's mech because it is operated by a tension cable that runs from the throttle control box.(Operates like brakes on a bike for us beginners.) I went to actually examine the boat last night and started cleaning it up and found a big hole on the floor where someone had mad a repair to the hull. (Hidden by a sheet of plywood before) Restoration forum here I come. Or on second thought how well does fiberglass burn?<br /><br />Thanks
 
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BillP

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Show us a pic of your Cobia. I'd say it's rated for at least 75hp. I've got a 1965 17' Cobia...rated at 110hp.
 
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coreyrosenfeld

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

I will try to get some pics up this weekend...
 
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ledgefinder

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Looks OK, but price waaaay high. More importantly, that motor is a 'short-shaft" for a 15" transom hull. If your hull is from 1978 it likely has a 20" transom (and takes a so-called 'long-shaft' motor). <br /><br />First thing to do, seeing as how the floor was rotted, is to check whether the transom on your boat is rotten. Is it cracked & bent back from the thrust & weight of the motor? If you can stand on the cavitation plate, and bounce (gently - make sure you don't break the plate off) without the transom bending, it's fine. Also, does it have teleflex steering, and does the steering work smoothly from lock-to-lock? If those two (transom & steering) check out, and you like the boat overall, then makes sense to find a motor for it. If that's the case, then measure the transom, from the middle where the motor is, down to the keel line. Should be about 20", and if it is, then you're looking for a 20" 'long-shaft' motor. Also - that'd rule out the overpriced 40hp, because it's a short-shaft.<br /><br />If you just want to fish & plane the hull, I'd say anything from 33hp on up ought to do it. As Paul said, the Evinrude/Johnson 33/40s are a good candidate. <br /><br />The Merc 35/40hp twin is also good, but be careful of the wiring & the fuel lines on the older ones - particularly anything before 1976. I haven't had much luck with Mercs older than 1970, they don't seem to hold up quite as well with age as the Evinrude/Johnsons (corrosion, wiring & fuel lines). That said, there are LOTS of healthy Mercs from the 60s and 50s running around, so it may be just my prejudice. Up until 1986, Mercs seem to have more actual power than the equivalent horsepower Evinrude/Johnsons, and I like the Merc powerbands better. The Merc 50hp four cylinder is a good motor; troll dead slow all morning, ski all afternoon. The Merc 65/70hp triples are highly-tuned, and kind of finicky.<br /><br />An 65/70 E/J triple might be the ideal choice. If the budget's tight (noticed you have kids...), you might consider one of the earlier 55/60hp hydro-electric shift triples. They're not generally sought-after, but I mention them because they seem about the right power & price motor for the hull and your uses. The fact that they're not sought after (like the 65/70s are) means the prices are reasonable; should be around 400 or less in good shape with shifter; less than a Merc 50 four, and about the same as a 1970s Merc 40 twin. The hydro-electric lower unit is a whole different animal than the earlier purely-electrical lower unit, and more reliable.<br /><br /><br />while your hull may
 
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coreyrosenfeld

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Sorry for not getting everything you just said but thank you for helping me and saying it! Correct me if I'm wrong but a Twin is a 2 cyl a triple is a 3 cyl and a Merc 4 would be a Mercury four cyl right? I think I would like to find a 55/60 E/J hydro like you mentioned but what years should I look for? I see a lot of engines out there for sale and to be quite honest if feels intimidating trying to match up my boat to a motor(especially when I have no clue about this stuff) My transon is fine but one of the stringers is going to need some work where they did the repair to the hull and then left the floor open. Here are the things that are confusing still. My boat has cables that hook to the motor to steer, not all these motors have the holes to hook them to. Also when they say controls included does that mean everything including the shifter/throttle and cables and the wiring unit? <br /><br />Thanks for taking the time to help!
 
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Paul Moir

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

You've got the 2-cyl, triple, Merc 4 thing correct.<br /><br />If you get the hydro electric shift, or the merc, you will not be able to use your controls.<br /><br />Generally speaking, when they say they include the controls, they also mean they include the wiring harness. Find out for sure before you buy. It's not a big deal to make or find your own, but it's one more thing.<br /><br />The first and formost thing to find out is whether they fit your boat. On newer boats, there's a nameplate that tells you, among other things, what the max hp for your hull is. On older boats you have to use good judgement (which Ledgefinder is providing). The other thing that's important is to find out if it's a short (15"), long (20"), or extra-long shaft (25"), and what you need. This diagram should explain things:<br />Click here.<br /> <br />That 40hp looks nice, but for that kind of money I would at least want to see perfect compression, records showing igntion, water pump, and carburetor maintanance was recently done, new fuel lines, and some sort of warranty.
 
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sledrunner59

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

In case you end up needing more parts for that Fat 50 I probably have what you'd need. I use to be in the repair business and I still have lots of new and used parts for older outboards. I've also got a complete new Carb Kit for that rascal too. I use to work and sell quite a few of those a few years ago, so if I can be of assistance let me know. I know I have a complete lower unit for parts too.<br /> Just in case. :cool:
 
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Tinkerer

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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Old Cobia<br /><br />It's your bad luck that I happened to look at this thread because I'm going to take a different view and maybe cause you to be undecided.<br /><br />Like you I bought a boat with an old motor. I only wanted the hull. But when I got it home the motor ran. One thing led to another. I didn't choose Tinkerer as my board name for nothing. <br /><br />I rebuilt my '67 Evinrude 60 HP, with help from people on this board including some who've posted in this thread, and it runs fine. Cost me a few hundred bucks to rebuild but it's as good as new and gets me around as well as the $1,500 upwards more modern motors I'd have to buy as a replacement with no guarantee that they won't have big problems too.<br /><br />She chews up fuel at a disgraceful rate but for the amount of use I give the boat it's nothing compared with the extra cost of a newer, more fuel efficient and generally better motor like the ones others have recommended here.<br /><br />A great virtue of my motor is that it's simple. The bottle coil, which is some ridiculous price new if you can find the genuine part, was replaced with a $20 new car coil. You can't do that with a $600 and hard to find CD ignition unit like the one that blew on an early '70's 3 cylinder 60hp Evinrude I got as an intended replacement for my gas guzzler. I parted it out and stuck with my Jumbo (that's what they were called here - like the elephant).<br /><br />A lot of parts like gasket sets and piston rings weren't available locally or were too expensive here but I got them through people on this board or off the internet at good prices.<br /><br />My clutch dog was stuffed, although I didn't find that out until the early trips with the rebuilt motor. It cost me $10 for an engineer to re-face it with a die cutter. Took him five or so minutes as I watched. Runs fine. (This may be the point where comments are going to be made about ruining case hardening.)<br /><br />I look at it this way. The motor cost me nothing. It wasn't factored into the price I paid for the hull. The time I spent fixing it, and it was a lot of hours, cost me nothing because otherwise I would have just been doing something useless like watching TV. For a few hundred bucks I've got a perfectly serviceable motor thats been rebuilt and, for the amount of hours it's likely to run in my hands on the relatively few days a year I get out, will last forever. I only wanted the boat for a fishing platform because my dinghy was too small. This boat and motor do the job fine.
 
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coreyrosenfeld

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Mar 2, 2005
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Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Re: Just bought old boat, real old motor now what? '59 Johnson 50hp bad clutch

Well, I have not decided what to do about the motor issue yet. I appreciate everyone's input. I have just started pulling up the old floor and it looks like it was worse than I had thought. All the stringers will need to be redone and I am just glad there's only a 4 1/2 x 7ft section that I am dealing with. I am using JasonJ's "share a project" from the restoration forum and it is proving to be very helpful. Once I see how the hull turns out I will decide what to do with the motor. The whole reason I went this route instead of buying a 22ft bass boat from Bass Pro Shops(which is about 10 miles away) was for the money investment vs. amount of time I will actually use the boat. I just can't see spending that much money on a boat I will literally use 10-12 times a year. Right now I have exactly $280 and about 1 1/2 hours invested. Including a tool I bought to cut the old floor out. I am just going to take it one step at a time an determine the best route at each crossroad. <br /><br />Rick, on the chance I decide to take Tinkerers advice and stay with the Fat 50 I would definitely be interested in talking with you about the parts you have. I don't want to break any rules about ad posts on the forum so I guess just e-mail me with the details. My profile should have the address. <br /><br />Thanks everyone for the help. I will try to post the before pics of the boat in a new thread in the next couple days.
 
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