purchase lake test gone bad..help please

mnw001

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
101
I'm trying to buy a boat with a 97 115 vro johnny<br />went to lake and it started right up in a cloud of smoke. Owner said he had not winterized and did not know he was supposed to but he did say he had stabilized the fuel in it but I wonder. it started idling poorly then died several times. on the restart it would always put out lots of smoke as a matter of fact he said he was selling it because his wife didn't like the smoke, I don't blame her. The prime bulb would not get or stay hard. It was pumping fuel but if it did get more solid it would loose it right away. Anyway ran the boat in the lake rpm's were down 1k@4k from what owner said it should be doing. Motor was rough and gutless but did not smoke once we were underway. It did feel like it was missing a little even at rpm. Got back to dock thank God and started to go out again. would not start..lots of oil in water, owner tried starting fluid in motor which I told him was a bad idea but the fact that he had a can of it in the boat told me he was no stranger to this problem..Anyway we raised the motor and black oil came from several places, a large pool of it. Thought we'd get arrested if we got caught putting that much oil in the lake. <br />It was thin and seemed mixed with fuel rather than lower unit grease. we had put ten gallons of fresh fuel in with what I thought was a few gallons of one year old gas now find out it could have been 2 years old as the motor smelled like bad gas when it did run. The prime bulb still would not pump up properly and the owner told me it was a new bulb and we checked the direction of flow and it was correct. never did get it started again..Told him I wouldn't buy it till we figured it out. Shame too cause its a Lund 1850 Tyee beautiful boat. So what's up any ideas..
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

It needs a complete major tune up, Compression check #1, Carbs rebuilt, water pump, gas drained and refilled, May not have the correct oil fuel mixture, fuel filter, lower unit oil change, spark plugs, and a good decarb, not necesarily in that order. Tell him when you see a reciept for all of this you will concider the purchase.<br /><br />Or, just do the compression check yourself and if it checks out ok, offer him $500.00 less than he is asking.
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

Better offer $1000 less, or more, as a neglected motor can turn into a money pit very quickly.
 

Laddies

Banned
Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Messages
12,218
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

Don't buy anything in less it's in the water running and doing what you expect it to do. You could be throughing your money away, as even if you get it to run properly after the purchace, it still might not do the job you expect it to. Bob
 

DHPMARINE

Captain
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
3,688
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

The starting fluid 'history' is enough to keep me away.I think you may see a short engine life with this motor.<br /><br />DHP
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

Ask him to get a written estimate from a reputable shop to get the motor repaired. Chances are it will be a big bill. Then deduct that amount from any offer to him. At this point he may be willing to sell it for less just to get rid of a "problem". Then trade the motor in towards a fresh rebuild or new one.<br /><br />If the bill is small, then tell him to have the work done, and if it checks out with a subsequent lake test, make a fair offer. This way you are sure that the small bill is not a carrot hanging in front of a donkey.
 

rayjay

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
243
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

Offer him $2k less.Right now it doesn't have a motor. <br /><br />He definitely doesn't want to go through with another abortive lake test with the next prospective buyer so he should be more than willing to do a deal with you.<br /><br />I recently bought a small houseboat that had been sitting for sale for several months because the guy didn't advertise it. Just had a FS sign in the window. When we went to test it the 115 Mariner ran great but the 4k Onan wouldn't start. Due to the length of time it had been FS and the non-functioning gen. I ended up paying $3k less than his fair asking price. Rebuilt the gen carb for $20 bucks and was in business.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

Primer bulbs do not stay firm after the engine starts. They only firm up because the float bowls in the carbs are full and the float has shut off the fuel inlet. Once the engine starts the fuel is drawn through the bulb and it will stay about half full. Failure to get firm before startup is indicative of a problem however.
 

rabidfish

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Messages
788
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

I am with Laddiesservice on this one...<br /><br />Do not buy it unless it runs perfectly.<br />A major engine overhaul could cost $3500-$4000 for that engine. <br /><br />Is the owner willing to take $4000 off the price? <br /><br />Are you willing to put $4000 more into it?<br /><br />Let us know what you decide...
 

stormrider62033

Recruit
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
3
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

I would say bad gas lucky did'nt burn it up probly need's carb's all clean ,stuck needle and seat's new spark plug's like the other member's say better have the ownwer take quite a few dollar's off the price
 

Brew2

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
427
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

You could give the seller the choice of three options:<br /><br />1. You'll buy the boat only at a fair price. You could then find your own motor that you have confidence in.<br /><br />2. You'll buy the boat and motor only after a reputable mechanic has overhauled the engine at the sellers cost.<br /><br />3. You'll buy the boat and motor at a severely discounted price given the uncertainty surrounding the condition of the motor. (At minimum I would check the compression numbers first).<br /><br />Good luck!
 

mnw001

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
101
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

ok Guys<br />First of all I want to thank everyone on this Forum. You guys are great and I really appreciate all the help..<br /><br />I bought the boat..Got it for fifteen hundred than I was going to pay yesterday..It works out to less than book value for the boat and trailer not counting the motor..So I should own it fairly right at this point. I did do a compression test on it and it seems a little low at 110,105,103,103. The cylinders were still pretty wet I don't know if the would have lowwered or raised compression. I didn't do a full check with butterflies open just checked <br />them one at a time with a spark checker connected to each cylinder as I checked it. What do you think about that any Idea what the new compression would be on this motor. I looked in the cylinders as best I could and didn't see any scoring. I'll start the diagnostic work on it soon but I really hope a carb tune will do the trick. I guess I get to learn all about vro now. I think I saw a manual on Ebay so that will be my first purchase for it..Thanks again for the suggestions and I'm sure I'll be calling for more help as I learn more..
 

reeldutch

Lieutenant
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
1,340
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

if you read lube dudes post i would recomend to take his advise and do all the work he said.<br />you need a good tune up.<br />the comp readings sound good to me with a decarb you should be able to raise it a litle in your case.<br />wp and tstats are a must and defenetly rebuild those carbs.<br /><br />good luck<br /><br />reeldutch
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

and dispose of the nasty gas BEFORE it eats a piston. right now your compression numbers are acceptable. adding 10 gallons of gas to nasty gas means you have at least 10 more gallons of nasty gas. if this is a cross flow motor test the VRO as per the manual and rebuild the carbs, if its a 60* motor it should also have a vapor seperator that must be tested as well.
 

mnw001

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
101
Re: purchase lake test gone bad..help please

Update:<br />First a question? I found one screw of the ones around the Fuel Piston Diaphragm of the VRO missing. I think it's been this way since it left the factory because there are no signs of threads having been cut by the screw. I checked another screw and it definately had threads in the plastic from the self tapping screws they use. I don't think this is my problem but perhaps it could be part of it. Do you suppose that diaphragm could be sucking air there and what symptoms would that cause from that location. It did not leak fuel which I would think would be the main symptom.<br />Ok on with update. Got my service manual yesterday and I removed carb bodies and fuel component. The all look clean and no signs of gumming or contamination. All the needles look fine but they do a have a red ring around the rubber tip apparently where they seat. I'm going to start trying to check anti-siphon valve and anything else I can test while its apart. Then I hope to reassemble and begin things such as running it from a separte tank. Just thought I'd chime in again, I think I'll have lots of questions. Ps just read a post from Wallyhead about a pontoon with a 98 xflow and learned a lot from that post.
 
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