'89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

[farginicehole]

I've been having an intermittent loss of spark to one or more cylinders (moves around - not always same cylinders). This engine has been extremely difficult to start after it has sat for more than a week or so. Once (maybe I say "if") it does finally start, you can shut it off and it will easily fire right back up. . . even if it only ran for a minute or so before turning the key off. My tach sometimes acts goofy too - sometimes works fine(?), sometimes cuts out completely, sometimes reads a LOT lower rpm than what my ears and the speed of the boat say the motor is turning. Last season, I replaced all six coils and plug wires "just because" they were old and I couldn't be sure the cracks in the insulation weren't shorting to ground. I have removed my flywheel and visually checked the stator, and didn't see any signs of it overheating or the oozing substance other threads have said to look for. I bought a Stevens PVA-1 to use with a Fluke to check the stator and sensor coil outputs as outlined in my Clymer manual. I also plan to test the rectifier per Joe Reeves' instructions in http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=019709#000000. I'm guessing the powerpack could be going south on me too, but I want to figure out if something else is the root cause of this before replacing it. Just wondering if any experts here have any advice for me, and can tell me if I'm going about this properly? Assuming I can get my ignition straightened out, are there other issues that could be contributing to my cold starting difficulties? Sorry for the long post, and thank-you very much in advance for taking the time to read and reply!

 

[OBJ]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Hey icehole.....<br /><br />Read your post a couple times.....keep wanting to ask if the primer system is working OK. If it isn't priming, you can crank a long time before enough fuel reaches the cylinders for the engine to start. Don't know if you have...but....a spray bottle with some premix in it can tell you a lot. If you take the carb cover off and give the carbs a squeeze of the spray bottle, and see if she fires off. If she does, the hard starting problem may lie in the primer solenoid.<br /><br />Have you actually checked for spark during these hard starting times?<br /><br />The erotic tach could mean your rectifier is going south...or ...you got a lose or dirty/corroded connection. <br /><br />Maybe I'm completely outta' the ball park here...dunno....

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Thanks for the reply, OBJ. I believe the primer system is working okay, as I can hear the solenoid click when I push in the key. I have also manually turned the red pointer and pulled one of the primer hoses off one of the carbs and gas was squirting out. Also, the times when it does actually start, I keep it running for the first 10 or so seconds by intermittently pushing in the key. As for checking for spark during these hard starting times, no I have not. I guess I need to have my wife turn the ignition key for me so I can do this. A detail that I accidentally left out about the hard (or sometimes no-go!) cold starting is that it will fire, but won't actually "catch" and start running. I'll bet I fought with it doing this for 15-20 minutes last weekend. I finally quit because I didn't want to burn out my starter, and it didn't seem like it was going to start anyways. I'm guessing that maybe it was back to only sparking on 3 or 4 cylinders, so maybe that's why it wouldn't start. Then maybe the problem compounds itself when I keep trying to start it, and keep giving it more prime, eventually getting the cylinders that ARE sparking too wet? Anyhow, thanks again for taking the time to read this!

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Last night I was able to do some of the tests outlined in my Clymer manual. First, I did the sensor coil resistance test. With the red ohmmeter lead on the port "D" pin in the connector on the timer base end and the black lead on the stbd connector "D" pin, I got 441 Ohms. The manual says this should be 230 +/-30, so this appears to be way out of spec high. With the red lead on the port "D" I got no readings at all with the black lead to port pins A, B and C (open circuit - no good!). Last fall when I checked these, I got D-A = 719, D-B = 663 and D-C = 684. What confuses me is that the manual says you should get 360 +/- 30 with a Stevens AT-101 or 970 +/- 100 with a Mercotronics M-700. I was using a Fluke 87, but why such a big difference in resistance readings with different brands of ohmmeters? Either way, now I've got no readings so I'm thinking something is very wrong with my timer base (so I'm probably at least intermittently getting no spark at all when trying to start?). I did check for grounded sensor coils by putting black lead on a good engine ground and checked all 4 wires in each of the connectors on the timer base end, and I got no reading with meter set on high scale (good - not grounded).<br />Next, I did the charge coil resistance test. Resistance between pins A-B was 942 Ohms, and C-D was 944 Ohms. This is a little out of spec low according to Clymer's 985 +/- 25. Then I did the check to make sure the charge coils aren't grounded, and it passed with no reading with meter on high scale.<br />Then I did the charge coil output test. With black lead on engine ground and red to 4 pins in connector with engine cranking, I got no reading from pins A, B, C & D (test passed). Then with black lead on A and red on B, I got 297 volts and 278 volts with black on C and red on D (pass, as manual says > 200 volts). So I'm thinking my charge coils/stator are good, even though resistance readings were a little low. Does this sound okay?<br />That's as far as I got last night, as my helper (my very patient wife) was ready for bed. I plan to do the sensor coil output test when I can. I also was going to do the regulator/rectifier test that Joe Reeves outlined, but I printed it and then left it laying on the printer when I left work (duhhh!!!). Thanks very much for taking the time to read this long message and also for any advice or tips! <br />By the way, it's model E150STLCEM with the 35-amp system. Sorry I forgot to include that in my original post.

 

[jy118lfd]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Put a spark tester on it cold and crank her up. If you have a bright blue spark that will jump a 7/16 gap then you need not test all the ignition. If it is weak and intermittent then all the tests you have done are needed. Good spark, then try putting the red lever on the manual position and pump the bulb I feel that it is very hard to flood these engines. If that helps then you have a fuel problem. <br /><br />What you are explaining sounds like a fuel problem to me but the spark test, cold, will tell the truth!

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Thanks for the reply, Jon. Doesn't the test I did make it look like I have a bad timer base though? I've done the red lever in the manual position and pumped the primer bulb and it doesn't seem to work. I'm pretty sure my solenoid is working when not in the manual mode too. When I pull the plugs after cranking unsucessfully for a while, they are plenty wet. Sometimes the engine will fire, but never actually start. Other times it will do this for a while, then finally "catch" and start running rough at first but I can keep it running until warm by jockeying the key push-in primer. When finally running, I pull the plug wires one by one and check for spark. Usually they jump a half-inch or so gap between the wire and the tip of the plug, but many times I find at least one (has been as many as three!) cylinders with absolutely no spark. I'm guessing this is why it starts so hard. Then other times (like last weekend), I can crank and prime all day and get no firing whatsoever. I'm thinking that these "open circuit" (infinite resistance) readings I got last night when checking my sensor coils might just be the (or at least a) culprit. I really hope I'm not sounding like a know-it-all, because I really value the advice I get from you guys on this site. I'm really interested in learning more about what makes (and prevents!) these engines tick. I guess I need to get a spark tester, and I wasn't able to do my pull wires and look for spark method last night because my helper (ignition key turner) retired for the evening. Thanks again for the reply and I'll keep you posted on what I find.

 

[jy118lfd]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Ok then you are getting fuel do the spark test and let us know. When you get it running does it run like normal or is it running different? You can search this site and find people that have made a spark tester that will test all six at once they look simple and then you can see if only one or two are the problem or the spark is intermittent on all of them. There are two charge coils and six sensor coils. The charge coils make the power and the sensors tell it when to spark (super simple explanation) so if it is one or two that do not have spark then it usually is not the stator. If a charge coil goes it will affect half the motor. Also try warming the power pack with a hair dryer and see if it changes but powerpacks usually go bad hot and work cold again not the other way around. Plus make sure the battery is fully charged and spinning the motor fast.

 

[jy118lfd]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Also do you premix or vro. Try fresh fuel in a different tank you might have bad fuel that can cause hard starting as well

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

I'm still using the VRO. I haven't put fresh fuel in this spring yet, but a couple weeks ago it started up and ran well (and much to my surprise, I had strong spark on all six!). My plan was to run the rest of this fuel out and then top off with fresh. Maybe I should use a separate external tank of fresh gas until I get this issue resolved though. Thanks again!<br />Edited: Oops, I only saw your 2nd post. Yeah, what's weird is that when I have between one and three cylinders dropping spark, it's not always the same ones and sometimes is a cylinder or two on the port bank and another one or two on the stbd bank. A couple weeks ago when it started and ran on all six (per my makeshift spark test!), it was running very smoothly. The times when I have it running on at least 4 or 5 cylinders, it sounds fairly smooth, but I don't (obviously) get the RPMs out of it. If I have 3 cylinders not sparking, then there is a very noticeable loss of power and rough running.

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Was gone for the weekend, so plan to do some more troubleshooting this week. Just bumping this up and wondering if anybody has any ideas about why I am getting no resistance reading ("infinite") between my port "D" pin and wires A, B and C on either port or stbd sensor coil plugs? I'm guessing this is going to give me zero sensor coil output when I check it with my PVA-1/Fluke voltmeter. I'm thinking it is highly unlikely that three or more pins would be damaged/open on my amphenol connectors at the same time, but any other ideas? I just don't want to buy a $300 timer base if it is something simple like a bad wire or something. Like I said before, it did pass the "sensor coil grounded" test. Thanks again in advance for any suggestions!

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

^

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

I picked up a simple spark tester this weekend at Auto Zone. Confirmed that I now have no spark on any of the six cylinders, which explains why it won't even fire not when cranking. I even reduced the gap to less than 1/4", and still nothing. Tried the key switch elimination test, where you separate the 5-wire connector between the powerpack and red engine harness, ground the "E" wire from power pack terminal and then crank the engine. Still no spark on any cylinders. Checked the sensor coil resistance again, this time with the ohmmeter on the "auto" range. Last time, I put it on the 500 Ohm range per the Clymer manual, but another troubleshooting guide I found on the internet for "'88-'96 V6 & V8 Quick Start timer bases" (is my E150STLCEM a Quick Start?) said I'm looking for 1-2 Megaohms instead of the readings 1K or less the Clymer stated (what the heck?!). I then got readings that didn't really want to "settle in", but were anywhere from 2-11 Megaohms between port "D" (white wire) and port & stbd "A", "B" and "C" (pastel-colored wires). Then I checked sensor coil output using the Fluke 87 with PVA-1 adapter. First, put black lead at timer base (ground) and red lead to each of 4 wires in each port & stbd timer base connector. Got zero reading, confirming the resistance test I did May 5 to check for grounded sensor coils or wires. Next, I connected the black tester lead to the port "D" (white wire), cranked engine and checked voltage at port and stbd wires A, B & C with the red test lead. All showed zero voltage, except stbd C, which showed 0.006 volts (might as well be zero!). Clymer's said I should have gotten at least 0.2 volts. Next, I put a jumper between port & stbd "D" wires (white & white/black). Grounded the black test lead to the timer base and again checked port & stbd A, B & C with red test lead while cranking engine. This time, I got zero volts from all six wires. To me, this looks like overwhelming evidence that my timer base is shot. I just wanted to know if it sounds right (maybe "probable" is a better word) that all six of my sensor coils would be bad? Since this is around a $300 part, I'd really like to be a little more comfortable that this is going to fix my problem before buying it. Like I mentioned, I did the key switch elimination test as I described above and it doesn't look to be the issue. Please help!!!

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Anyone? Logging off for the day so thought I'd bump this. Thanks!

 

[clanton]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

If I can get to my bulletins and manuals tomorrow,I will try and be more helpful. Its hard to find anything when it has been packed for months. I also have to use someones else computer for a while.

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Okay, thanks! I'm probably going to try popping the flywheel off to take a closer look at the timer base. It just seems kind of odd to me that I get very high resistance and no voltage output from any of the six sensor coils. I tried the key switch elimination test that I described above (ground "E" wire in 5-wire powerpack connector, crank and look for spark) one more time this morning and still got nothing. Just wanted to make sure I didn't do something stupid the other day and ground the "E" on the engine harness (big red connector, right?) connector instead of the powerpack connector! I have noticed, however, that some sources on the internet say to just remove the black/yellow wire at the powerpack and to leave (at least I think?) the powerpack/harness connectors together when doing this test. My Clymer manual said to disconnect the connectors and ground the black/yellow "E" wire at the pack end of the connector. Does this make a difference? I'd hate to think I'm just performing this simple (ha!) test incorrectly! Thanks again so much!

 

[clanton]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Call me 239-503-5867, Im in CST zone.

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Just talked to Clanton, and he was nice enough to give me some suggestions. He suggested that for doing the sensor coil output test, I try it again without the peak voltage adapter and set the DMM on AC voltage. I'll try that and report the results back. It also sounds like I did the key switch elimination test wrong. I'll double-check, but I'm just about positive my Clymer manual told me to ground the "E" (black/yellow) wire from the powerpack. Sounds like that's exactly what the emergency kill switch does in an "emergency" situation, or when it is defective! So, I'll try the test again by removing the black/yellow wire circuit to the powerpack. Sure will be cool if that turns out to be my problem! Clanton, I know you have limited computer access right now, but thanks again for taking the time to try and help me out!

 

[farginicehole]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Hmmm, checked the manual again for the key switch elimination test and it does say to disconnect the 5-wire connector between the powerpack and the engine harness and then jump the powerpack "E" (but this is a white wire, not a black/yellow one like I was thinking) wire to ground before cranking the engine and looking for spark. I did this again and got absolutely no spark on any cylinders. I'm guessing the white "E" wire is some common ground for the powerpack? My 5-wire connector has two black/yellow wires (positions "A" and "D"). I also repeated this test with the rectifier yellow, yellow/white, red, gray and purple wires disconnected from the terminal block and still got no spark. Left my multimeter at work, so didn't get to check again for sensor coil voltage output yet.

 

[Mike82]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

I am having this exact same problem with this exact same motor. I have done all the test you have done and then some and my results also point at the timer base but I too would like to know for sure before shelling out 300 bucks. I was just curious if you ended up figuring out what was wrong with you motor.

 

[dayvboy]

Re: '89 Evinrude XP150 spark & starting problems

Same exact issues with my 89 XP150, did you ever get any answers? Was it the timing sensor?