1959 Johnson Fat 50

[grover777]

Hi all,<br /><br />I made some progress on my Fat 50 last year (starter, rebuilt carbs etc). However, when I went to adust the carb settings as per a reply Joe Reeves sent me last year, I killed my battery. The engine would start, then die before I could get the carbs set. Well, my battery was completley shot. <br /><br />I got a new battery recently with waay more cranking amps, works great, however, the boat wont fire now. What would cause the boat not to fire after sitting all winter, like I said, it did run, just very poorly when I put her in storage last fall.<br /><br />Any advice??<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Daron<br />Mahomet, Il<br />1959 Glaspar Trident<br />1959 50hp Super Seahorse

 

[CATransplant]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Could be almost anything that keeps outboards from starting. Run through the FAQ on starting problems, checking each thing in order. <br /><br />Wonderful outboard, that one. My dad, who is now 80 years old, has been using his since he bought it new in 1959, along with his Glaspar. He's rebuilt the powerhead once, and did normal maintenance, but that's it. Not bad for a 46-year-old motor.<br /><br />You'll get this one running, I'm sure, and it will serve you well. Great match for your Glaspar.<br /><br />Let us know what happens when you run through the starting FAQ.<br /><br />I'm assuming you have a service manual for this engine, right?

 

[grover777]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Don't flame me too bad, I havent gotten the manual yet......will do so very soon.<br /><br />Anyway, I got the motor started, i dont think I primed the bulb enough, did not smell fresh gas in the carbs, but once I did, she fired right up.<br /><br />My dad bought the boat from a family friend ( who bought it from the original owner) back in the early 80's. I am 35 years old now and I first learned how to drive a boat on this one when I was 6 years old our friends owned it then. She has many memories and is in great shape for her age!!<br /><br />Anyway, to make a long story short, she used to have a very quick hole shot, but now is very sluggish, but once one plane, she runs fine. I tested compression last summer turned out ok and rebuilt the carbs. I have not got the boat to the water to set the carbs properly to see if it takes care of the hole shot.<br /><br />Any tips on this old beast would be appreciated!!<br /><br />I will get the manual!<br /><br />Thanks again<br /><br />Daron

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Post back when yo get the carb adjusted. Make sure that you do them while on the water. Hopefully not too far from the ramp. If your hole shot still suffers we will go from there.

 

[rwise]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Has it had a decarb? If not you may want to get some seafoam and run through it. (have a spare set of plugs handy. some have said it does strange things to plugs) could be that the oil that was ran through it years ago is now carbon in the exhaust, seafoam will take care of that. when you get the manual, check the "sync and link". also if the bearings in the magneto have never been lubed, it's time. mine (58 fat 50) ran rough until I lubed those bearings after that it smoothed right out. WOT to get on plane, then back off to 3/4 to run for best fuel mileage. great hungry engine!

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Remove the spark plugs. Crank the engine and check for spark that should jump a 1/4" gap on that model with a strong blue lightning like flame..... a real SNAP!<br /><br />If you have no spark, remove the black wire leading from the magneto to the wiring harness if it exists (NOT the wire that leads back into the magneto), then check the spark again. Let us know what you find there.<br /><br />If the spark is okay, then no doubt the carburetor is fouled again due to sitting.

 

[grover777]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Just got back from the lake. I did the decarb procedure outlined in the faq. I did this twice before my small tank ran dry.<br /><br />The boat is still very sluggish on takeoff and is very slow to plane and even worse when another person is in the boat with me. As I said earlier, this boat used to plane very quiclky even under load with 4 adults. Plugs are less than a year old and of proper gap and type.<br /><br />Do you have any other suggestions on where I can go next, I do not want to take it to a mechanic as I want to learn to maintain this boat myself.<br /><br />PS I am waiting for my Seloc Manual

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

On your " fat fifty" I would suggest pulling he heads, and the exhaust cover. I would guess you will find something that somewhat look's like an old stove inside. I don't think your SeaFoam probably made much of a dent. Check! then tell us what you find.

 

[Solittle]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

grover - Did you follow Joe's advice? He is one of the "masters" here.

 

[grover777]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

I adjusted the carbs per Joe's advice and he has been a great help!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rwise]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Have you ran a compression test? It may be low on compression, (head gasket or rings) that would explain a loss of power, as would carbon in the exhaust. Joe Reeves and R. Johnson both are top notch here, listen to what they have to say. (I do)

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

You say that you've adjusted the carburetor, not that you've removed and cleaned it. It's been sitting approximately a year if I read your post correctly. That length of time is enough to foul the carburetor.<br /><br />If all else is as it should be (linkages, etc), I would still recommend giving that carburetor a thorough cleaning.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Grover, Make sure you set both sets of points to open at the same time. There are two timing marks on the distributor pulley (90 degrees apart). When each of the marks passes the mark on the distributor base, the points should open. Also, you will need to adjust the high speed jets while at WOT (a helper drives, you hang on and turn the jets). Those motors were very reliable but low tech. They always had a good hole shot, actually they never had much in the way of high speed.

 

[grover777]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Thanks for the help all, I will start more troubleshooting this week.

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Did you ever check for spark as suggested by Joe? I wouldn't pull the heads or anything else until I have it narrowed down to spark, fuel, or air.

 

[grover777]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Ok, I am an idiot!!!! After all this, I decided to pull the plugs today and they are J8C not J4C or J6C, could this be the cause of my problem all along??? I will get new plugs tomorrow and try that before I do anything else<br /><br />I will post back with an update.<br /><br />Daron

 

[jpwade_bsu]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Joe Reeves: ..... remove the black wire leading from the magneto to the wiring harness if it exists (NOT the wire that leads back into the magneto), then check the spark again. Let us know what you find there.If the spark is okay, then no doubt the carburetor is fouled again due to sitting.

Hello Joe, I am following up on previous posters comments of no spark.
I have no spark on any plug.

Evinrude 1959 50hp, model: 50519

I disconnected wire #2 in photo above, still no fire on any plug

(#2 wire goes to nife connection then motor wireing harness, motor wire harness is not connected to anything at this point, motor is on stand)

I disconnected wire #1 in the photo that goes up to the points.
no wires attached to mag output screw, the screw coming out of the mag is zero ohms to ground. (mag output shorted to ground internally?)

#3 in the photo, the gormet around the mag output screw is in good shape both inside and outside and the output screw is isoleted from ground (inside gormet has good nipple that goes through the mag housing)

******

photo above is inside the mag, removed coil lead from screw and the lead reads zero ohms to ground.

does it sound as if mag is in bad shape and needs to be tore down and inspected?

****
other things i did:
* cleaned points, and confirmed gap is at .020, points open at 90 deg. lobes
* inside of distributor: cleaned rotater and spark wire terminals
* checked spark plug wires (unable to unplug from distributor)
* plugs are set to .030
* tried a bolt with a test lead for arc to ground from each spark plug wire cap
(no fire)

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

J8C plugs are fine. You have gapped both sets of points, right? The magneto coil looks to be installed correctly. Make sure the wire from the magneto that runs to the outside of the distributor case doesn't short to the case. The other side of the coil is grounded.

The #2 wire is the killer wire. It is grounded to kill the spark. Since you disconnected it, you are good. Remove the point wire and put a continuity meter on it. Turn the distributor pulley and see if the points open and close at the specified timing marks. If so, the condenser is likely bad. If you do not get open and close readings, check the wire that connects the points together.

The coil has no cracks, right?

 

[jpwade_bsu]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

Chris1956: ... the condenser .... The coil has no cracks, right?

I tore the mag down:
* removed coil, no signs of cracks, re-installed coil
* ohm coil = .8
* ohms between coil grnd wire and the coil high voltage
output pin that feeds to the distributor rotor = 6.8 ohms
* continuity good: between spring in the distributor cap that contacts
coil highvoltage output pin and the pin in the dist. cap that contacts
the rotor top.
* rotated shaft until both points were on high end of lobe and rechecked
point gap
* continuity test points from end of wire that connects to mag, to 1st set
of points (open no meter beep, closed meter beeps), same at second set
of points
* removed condenser, used volt meter: negative to base, + to condenser
wire, applied 12v with battery charger and then disconnected + lead of
the battery charger, voltage of condenser dropped down as the volt
meter sucked the juice out of the condenser.
* coil high voltage output pin gave me a very slight trickle as i bumped
across point open / closed position while turning shaft.

The small accidental shock told me the coil was pumping out voltage though not much. Re-assymbled mag, screwed small bolt into distributor #1 spark plug wire position and connected a wire lead to test for spark to mag body as I spun the pully.

still no spark!!!!

Searched the net on how to repair mag
* build your own mag recharger - no thanks ....
* bring into a mag shop and have it recharged - not yet ....
* bake in oven at 200 degrees for 2 hrs to remove moisture - worth a try!

Cesar the Cajun Chef Steps In
* tore down mag, removed pully, point base plate with points etc, cam lobe, spline pin for pully, removed coil screws and holding clamps (did not want heat to cause binding across coil structure)

* pre-heated oven to 250 degrees, turned off heat
* put mag body with coil still in the mag not bolted down , into the oven
* removed mag 2 hrs later and re-assymbled

re-tested distributor cap #1 output with test lead to mag ground
BAM! , hair on head stood up, eyes rolled around a bit and I developed a ton of respect for sleeping devices !

Put mag back on motor (it looked like an octopus wanting to attack me),
cranked engine and heard plugs pop!, sprayed a bit of fuel into cyls and cranked motor , fire!

I then dumped a bit of fuel in the carbs, and you can hear / see the result here:
Fat Fifty Starts Up 1st start up

Fat Fifty Runnig Rough & MissFires, time to check gear case and water pump throughly so I can tune her up.

Never give a magneto the benifit of doubt as in i doubt this baking is going to work ....

p.s. do not bake parts in the oven or steam clean parts in the dishwasher unless wife is out of house for an extended period of time.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: 1959 Johnson Fat 50

I am glad it worked out for you, althought I still do not understand why it worked.

I dropped my fatty into the salt water for 60 hours while it was running, some years ago. I finally found it and recovered it. I then cleaned up the starter and distributor, and cleaned the salt, sand and sea shells out of the block. I was able to pull start the motor. I never baked the distributor, althought I did bake the starter. I learned that from a neighbor who was in the electric motor business.

I guess I always thought that 60 hours of salt water could never defeat 35 years of grease and oil.