1958 EV.Star FliteV-4 Magnitio ign.

Ted Everett

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Jul 26, 2005
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3
Engine runs well at idel. Once to power the engine pulls back by itself to a sputter stall and stall condition. Re-starts fine. Found overheating condition run before last and removed themo. from water jacket block. Runs and circulates much better but still has pull off. 1st. ?, Will the thermo. being out all together still give this same condition. I know the book suggest this would create other prob's but not specific. Any one have some ideas.? Also, carb's are re-built, complete tune all around plus new parts. Idel and Power settings set. Thanks for any help. Ted
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: 1958 EV.Star FliteV-4 Magnitio ign.

That engine must run at a certain temperture in order to avoid piston scoring etc (powerhead damage). Simply removing the thermostats does not cure the faulty water pump condition but simply adds to the problem.<br /><br />Assuming that the compression and spark are as they should be, to cure the overheating problem, install a new water pump kit and thermostat.<br /><br />The stalling out when throttle is applied would be due to either overlooking something within the carburetor, the carburetor is out of adjustment, the throttle butterfly is opening too soon in relation to the timing, or possibly the timing is not set properly.<br /><br />Usually the problem is carburetor related. The proper adjustment procedure follows:<br /><br />(Carburetor Adjustments - Older V/4 Downdraft Carb)<br />(J. Reeves)<br /> <br />NOTE: The early model downdraft carburetors incorporated "Adjustable High Speed Jets". The later model downdraft carburetors used "Fixed High Speed Jets". Follow the below instructions accordingly. If you do not have adjustable high speed jets, ignore those paragraphs pertaining to same.<br /><br />Lift the center High Speed Control lever and turn it so that the point faces forward, resting on the high ridge. This will disengage the lever control gear from the individual high speed jets (slots). Have the slow speed needle valve knobs installed upside down so that they can be turned without encountering any obstruction.<br /><br />Gently seat each of the High Speed needle valves, then back each one out one (1) turn. Gently seat each of the Slow Speed needle valves, then back each one out one and one half (1-1/2) turns. NOTE... have the jam nut on the s/speed needles snug so that viberation won't have any effect on them, but loose enough so that you can turn them without a great amout of effort.<br /><br />(High Speed)<br />With a reliable person at the wheel, and one kneeling in front of the engine, start the engine (yes, it will run lousy with the above initial needle valve settings), put it into forward gear, and apply full throttle. Start with the High Speed adjustment on the left using a screwdrive that properly fits the slot.<br /><br />(High Speed Adjustments)<br />At full throttle, with the proper size screwdriver, slowly start turning one of the H/S needles in segments of 1/8 turn, waiting momentarily for the engine to respond, then repeat turning. You will reach a point where the engine will start to die out. At that point, back that needle valve out approximately 1/4 turn. Now, go to the other High Speed needle valve and repeat that procedure. At some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest high speed setting (you can now lower the throttle rpm). That will have both high speed needle valves set correctly, and at that point you can lift that center lever adjustment of that high ridge, keeping it lifted until the point is facing the engine, then lower it into its proper position. (When you turn that lever now, you're adjusting both High Speed needle valves at the same time.)<br /><br />(Slow Speed Adjustments)<br />Now, lowering the rpms of course, take the engine out of gear and set the throttle just to where the engine will stay running. Again, in segments of 1/8 turn, slowly start turning in one of the slow speed needle valves, waiting a few seconds between each turning for the engine to respond. As you turn the s/speed needles in, the rpms will increase..... and as it does, lower the rpms to where the engine will just stay running (otherwise the rpms will climb quite high). You will reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mjild backfire). At that point, back the needle valve out 1/4 turn. Repeat the process with the remaining slow speed needle. Again, at some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest setting. When finished, tighten the jam nut somewhat, then remove and reinstall the s/speed knobs correctly (right side up).<br /><br />- - - - - - - - <br /><br />Also, check the fuel pump diaphram.... Remove the hose that leads from the fuel pump to the intake manifold. Pump the fuel primer bulb up hard. If fuel flows out the pump fitting, the diaphram is cracked and requires replacing.<br /><br />Even if the diaphram is okay, it's possible that one of the two valves in the pump are faulty. If pumping the primer bulb when the engine is running (acting as a manual fuel pump) cures your problem, rebuild the fuel pump.
 

Ted Everett

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Jul 26, 2005
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3
Re: 1958 EV.Star FliteV-4 Magnitio ign.

Hello Joe. Thank you for the help. Yes we did all the needle setting the other day. Ran much smother. Another fellow suggest to replace the coil. Would the coil cause the pull-off condition? All the fuel system is new (Diaphram). Cyl. compression is at 80 lbs. with maybe a 1 pound diff per. The pull-off problem occurs when already to power and about a half mile down the lake the engine pulls of by itself. Took out Thermo. but left poppet in. Plenty of good water flow. Plan to get new thermo. next week. Would the Thermo. be that picky to cause a pull-off problem? The motor runs smooth at idel in gear. When I start up to speed there is a sputter until rpm reach power close to power, Pumping the valve does not affect the motor when running. Set all high and low settings to book spec. Read your step by step and the only diff, I saw between you and the book was turning the 1/8th turns. Carb's responded as per book procedure. Thanks so much for your help.
 

R.Johnson

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Sep 24, 2003
Messages
4,446
Re: 1958 EV.Star FliteV-4 Magnitio ign.

Pull the coil, and look for a burn mark on the side. There should be a plastic insulator on each side of the coil.
 

Chris1956

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Mar 25, 2004
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28,078
Re: 1958 EV.Star FliteV-4 Magnitio ign.

Ted, I had that motor for years. I never used the thermostat or the poppet, and never had an issue. Although is sounds like a too little fuel issue, I will assume your pumping the bulb while its is running at high speed, eliminates this possibility.<br /><br />You can check the coil for cracks in the plastic, but that would usually cause a no-spark condition.<br /><br />Is it possible you are fouling the bottom cylinder plugs, or have a bad spark plug wire? I always found the two bottom cylinders ran much richer than the top two. You might try J6C plugs, which are a bit hotter than the standard J4C Champions.
 

Ted Everett

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Jul 26, 2005
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3
Re: 1958 EV.Star FliteV-4 Magnitio ign.

It has been a year since I had the distributor and coil area apart.I will check for coil condition. Now as far as pumping the bulb, I only was doing this at low speed or idel. There was no change to engine performance. The bulb did feel a little the mushy side but consistant. I have not messed with it at high speed. What should I be looking for when applying pressure to the bulb? A new Thermo. is $ 45.00. Should I take the poppet out also. Ol paws folks say that this is crucial part of motor performance (?) As far as the coil. That is what I think. The coil should provide just spark. If the plastic is missing would this cause the pull-off problem? The plugs in right now are Auto-Lite 258 at 30 gapped. Hard to find champs. Thanks again, Cadet Ted
 

Chris1956

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Mar 25, 2004
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28,078
Re: 1958 EV.Star FliteV-4 Magnitio ign.

Ted, There was an AC plug for that motor, if Champions are hard to get. I think it was M42K, but you need to check cross ref. I would also think NGK would have an equivalent to Champion J4C/J6C. The $45 thermostat was exactly the reason I didn't use one. I took the poppet and spring out also. if the spark plugs turn green, the motor is overheating, although I don't know why the green look.
 

rwise

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Jul 5, 2001
Messages
3,205
Re: 1958 EV.Star FliteV-4 Magnitio ign.

Ted just a long shot here, but, is the tank vent open? While you have the distributor apart lub the bearings! Mine ran much smother after doing this. Also have you checked the fuel line for air leaks?
 
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