Take a read one this one guys

[crazy charlie]

I need some opinions on this one guys.I was sipping an Amstel light on my boat, tied up in my marina yesterday.I saw an old salt hop aboard his boat across the marina, which has inboards and started it up.As it warmed up He went back to his truck and brought out 2 gas cans and began fueling his boat as it was running.I flew off my boat and ran over to him and warned him to stop fueling immediately!!!! He calmly looked up at me and said calm down junior.I have been doing this since before you were wearing diapers.I exchanged a few warnings to him but he just kept calmly fueling his boat.He later came around my side of the marina and told me that he was not nuts.He said that once the motors are running that it is far safer to fuel the boat .He said that there was no chance of a spark igniting anything at that point.He stated that it is much more dangerous to fuel the boat and then start the motors because almost nobody lets the blowers run long enough.Then he winked at me and pointed to my Amstel and said"Now that will kill ya".Granted he has been boating waaaay longer than me and probably knows more about boats than me but I still wont be fueling up his way any time soon.Any thoughts?????????

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Offer him a light?

 

[RatFish]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

He has been lucky. Let it go. Be happy he's not near you.

 

[sangerwaker]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Why is that when fueling at a full service marina (as most are) while in the water, they require you to shut off your motor?<br /><br />I agree he has been lucky. Buy him a cigar.

 

[vipzach]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

That makes no sense to me at all. I think he is lucky too. Stay away from him and let it go. I am not a fan of the amstel but keep drinking it and maybe you can watch sometime when there is a fireball on his boat.

 

[prockvoan]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

I think I would of not gone to his boat till after he blew himself up.You know the old saying;you can't teach a old dog new tricks!

 

[Mahoney]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Not that I do this, but I have read the reasoning is that the amount of air the carb clears out of the bilge while running is vastly larger than any bilge blower you could be operating. So as any fumes would make thier way into the bilge, they are sucked out by the engine running long before they concentrate enough to become explosive.<br /><br />Technically I would think this would indeed be safer than relying on a blower to adaquately clear the engine bay and also generating sparks from a starter motor.<br /><br />There are probably a million reasons they dont want people running engines at the gas dock, co fumes, boats slipping into gear, etc.

 

[bayman]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

I certainly wouldn't recommend his method at all. In certain cases, especially if someone has a non-marinized engine, things aren't going to be pretty. I will agree that it is good to run the blower on inboard boats for awhile before starting though.

 

[fseventy]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

All this thought process is derived from two words. LAW SUIT. Some nimrod years and years ago decides to fuel his boat/car/motorcycle with the engine running, makes some horrible glaring mistake like hold an open flame near the filler and remove the the hose and Woofff! FIRE!<br /><br />All the gas stations are freaked by the increased liability insurance rates and will promptly display any/all warning signs against anything that might cause a fire (spark/static electricity/cigaretts/lighters/cell phones/ farting...)<br /><br />Many tests have been done of sparks/open flames in everything from gas vapor to open containers of fuel, and for the most part unless it is an open flame with a healthy oxygen source, RANDOM sparks and smoldering embers have a hard time igniting liquid gas/gas vapors unless it is at the right fuel/air ratio.<br /><br />It is always good to play it safe when around fuel, and you should always ground yourself against something metallic (other than the fuel tank itself!) before touching the filler cap/neck/filler hose, but there is no need to run from the service station when the guy in front of you is using his cell phone.<br /><br />As for the old timer fueling his running boat... I would probably not do it, but I would not freak if I was with someone who was.<br /><br />As far as the comment about the carbs pulling more air than the blower... someone would have to do a flow test on both.

 

[QC]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Good post fseventy,<br /><br />In the summer in AZ, when I have yanked the boat out and it is 115 F and we are heading home, I always fuel with my truck running. I want the family and especially the boss all nice and cool for the ride home. I exercise a little more care on the boat, but you can put a cigarette out in gasollne.<br /><br />The old man doesn't bug me much either, because the safety issue is in the bilge not out at the fuel filler.<br /><br />They are really freaked out in the UK with this. I was filling a car over there, talking on a cell phone and the little guy inside the window hollered at me with his PA. Between his accent and the bad PA system I could not figure who or what he was talking about . . . I just use the dumb American line over there and they usually give me a break.

 

[Realgun]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Two problems here-<br /><br />1. You were drinking on the boat.<br />2. You ran over to a potential bomb.<br /><br />Climbing down from my pedistal now.

 

[BillP]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

I think the old guy is dangerous and I would probably tell the marina owner. Any engine can have faulty spark plug wires and stray sparks, etc. Just because the engine is running it doesn't mean concentrated gas vapors will get sucked in before they could hit a spark and explode. That's why engines should be off for fueling and sealed blowers used to purge the bilge before starting the engine.

 

[oceansbreeze]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

while it's no laughing matter, do keep some hotdogs and marshmallows handy, in the event of a fire...<br /><br />scary thought.... it really is...

 

[Boatist]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

I totally disagree with the carb clearing the bilge better than a blige blower. First gas fumes are heavier than air so they sink to the bottom of the bilge. By the time the fumes get thick enough to reach carb every posible ingition source will have had a chance to ingit the fuel. You will be history long before the fumes reach the carb. That why the bilge blower suck air from the lowest part of the bilge it can with out being covered by bilge water. Also why the input air to the bilge should be even with or above the Carb intake.<br /><br />If every thing is working right then what he is doing is pretty safe but any fuel hose with a leak vent hose that came disconnected or has a leak and the boat can fill with fuel or vapor. Out here in California about 2 years back had a boat blow up 100 yards from the dock after fueing. Coast Guards said everything on the boat appeared to be good. There conclusion was that when feuling the light breese pushed the fumes that came out of the vent hose as the tank was fueled up and into the boat. After fueling they did not run the bilge blower long enough to clear the fumes. Two on board both burned but survied.

 

[umblecumbuz]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

quote from Quietcat<br />you can put a cigarette out in gasollne

Just warn me when you try it please. Anyone who advocates this is a lunatic. <br /><br />Although it's true that if you have a container full of gas with a very NARROW opening, you could stuff a cigarette in it and put it out - try doing it with an open bucket of gas and you'd only do it the once! The difference is the liquid/air ratio. The larger surface area of gas in the open bucket is lethal.<br /><br />I used to work for an oil company, and we were always having safety lectures. One old boffin told us horror stories of gas stations that had blown up. Mostly this happened on hot days when they were being refilled by the tanker, and the heavy fumes travelled over the ground till they hit a flame (in one case it was a gas pilot light on a frig in the owner's bungalow).<br /><br />He said, 'If you ever see a tanker filling a gas station, drive by fast. Never stop!'<br /><br />I'd do exactly as Charlie did - warn the guy, and then get the hell out. You've got one life only.

 

[BUBBLES II]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Don't try this at home, please. When I was a kid, the big boys had dirt bikes. I remember, like yesterday, one of them was smoking while checking the gas in the tank. I told him he was going to explode. He says, "Watch this, kid," and flicks his butt into the tank. Ssssstt. Nothing happened.

 

[swist]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

In a theoretical situation pure gasoline will put out a cigarette, but there are very few theoretical situations - gas is very volatile and any surface in contact with even a little air will quickly produce enough vapor to ignite. The chances of pulling this trick off succesfully are very low.

 

[Marauderk]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

they did a mythbuster show on lighting gas with a cig and they could not do it in an open nucket or a puddle on the ground. they said there is a chance but you have to have 500 deg to light gas and the cig could only get close to 500 when you where inhaling it. In my youth i tried several times to do it and never could but then again i sometimes wonder how i ever survived looking back at some of my stunts lol

 

[Osprey]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

Boatist has it right. In the case of a car or truck, fuel is in the back, engine and potiential ignition source is in the front. When fueling a boat, especially an inboard, fuel leaks of anykind end up in the bilge directly under the engine. One spark from a faulty plug wire or cracked distributor cap and you will have a very bad day. All the theory on the engine/carbs clearing the engine compartment of fumes makes for an interesting debate but is this really one you want to test for yourself? I don't think so.

 

[QC]

Re: Take a read one this one guys

These are level of risk issues. I never said that you should use your fuel tank as an ash tray. I only was pointing out that the volatility is not what we all think it is. I am not interested in spending anytime in a burn ward. I just don't think we need to flip out whenever somebody is handling gasoline. Boatist has an experience that has proven to him that bad things can happen. I TOTALLY understand. I just think this ranks down there with plane crashes as far as risk is concerned. Walking across the street is much more dangerous than filling your fuel tank (no I don't have the statistics). I am more concerned about idiots on the water with 500 bhp boats than I am about a guy with a lot of experience filling his tanks.<br /><br />BTW, I am in the fuel and engine biz. We sell natural gas conversions of diesel engines. Natural Gas is waaaaay safer than gasoline but most of my customers are concerned that they are adding a bomb to their vehicle. Not the case at all, but most of us have this impression too. There is nothing wrong with erring on the side of safety. That is how I run my vehicles, I just don't think the dock guy is a ticking time bomb . . . Could it happen? Yes. But your boat could be struck by lightning while sippin' on the Amstel light watching him fuel too.