4 feet of chain?

[Peter J Fraser]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Our Coast Guard recommends a chain of 1,1/2 times your boat length and at least a 3:1 ratio of line out on top of that.<br />Like some others have said, The more chain you have out, the flatter the pull on your anchor which improves the holding power of the anchor.<br /><br />Peter

 

[Osprey]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Mattt makes a great point. When anchoring with my 24' of chain for a 21' boat I know that on a calm day my chain anchors the boat and my anchor is my insurance policy. But if the wind comes up or the current shifts and swings the boat around or the swell picks up I know I've got a reasonable shot that the boat will stay put.<br /><br />On one occasion I had anchored with my manly 24’ of chain and anchor and we exited the boat for a scuba dive. After descending and checking the anchor, we commenced our dive plan. About ten minutes in I started hearing an odd tinkling sound. Hmm something like metal bouncing along rock. After making a mad dash back to the location were the anchor should have been, it was nowhere in sight. After a very uncomfortable couple minutes I found it had drug into deeper water but had caught and stopped the boat.<br /><br />As for storage, on a prior boat which had no anchor locker I used a standard plastic milk crate for my complete anchor system and it worked fine. Anchor, 24’ chain and rope with room to spare.

 

[rwidman]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Originally posted by Stratocaster:<br /> Those giving the advice for "4 feet of chain being plenty" are dead wrong. I don't ever want to be anchored overnight next to any of you when the wind comes up in the middle of the night, cause you'll either be hitting other boats as you drag, or you'll wake up with your boat on the beach. Both of which I have seen happen way too many times.<br /><br />I'm not talking about stopping for lunch or fishing. I'm talking about anchoring overnight, or leaving your boat unattended, which is different. About 5 years ago I had an unattended boat drag anchor and slam into mine for this exact reason. He had an "anchor kit" in a 5 gal pail, which included 3 feet of chain.<br /><br />Small boats can use 3/16" or 1/4" chain. And 20 feet of it doesn't take up much room.

After reading all the posts, this is the one I would agree with. Anchoring overnight or leaving the boatg unattended must be taken seriously and the right equipment is the first requirement. Knowing how to use it is the second.

 

[Richard Petersen]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Anchoring and then having no one aboard or awake when the weather turns to a fast swirling 20 to 40 mph gusts says 1 thing. Start engine, pull the dragging anchor that pulled out due to a 180 degree wind shift and is full of weeds and head for better water. Or, beach the boat and save your life and boat. 2 times I started making my way for a beaching in a 15 minute squall. I plain *** panicked how fast that black cloud got to me.

 

[Sea Six]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Simple has a 20' Bayliner who anchors in 10 ft of water, and I doubt for very long. Simple, it's up to you. Why don't you use your 4 ft of chain and see if it works. Don't worry about the overnight high wind stories if you're never in that situation.

 

[Boatist]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

I sure no is going to change their mind at this point but chain is only need for two reasons. <br /><br />1: Your anchoring in rocky area or a area with something sharp that can cut you line. The chain will last much longer in this condition.<br /><br />2: You are anchoring with a short scope.<br /><br />Scope is much more important than chain. <br />With a short scope 3 to 1 in calm contitions then chain can help hold the anchor shank or shaft down parallel to the bottom so the flutes can dig in. The chain will cause the anchor line to head down at a steeper angle and likely lie on the bottom ahead of the anchor so when pulled the anchor flutes did in. <br />However as wind, current and seas pick up at a 3 to 1 scope even all chain rode will straighten out and instead of pulling along the bottom will lift the anchore shank to point straight at the boat. When this happends the flutes will no longer be digging deeper but instead just sliding along the bottom and only the weight of the anchor will slow your drift.<br /><br />With a 7 to 1 normal scope chain is not needed. Even when the shaft or shank is pulled to point straight at the boat it is still at a low enough angle that the flutes still dig in deeper. As the wind, current and seas pick up the angle does not change. As we pull harder the anchor flutes digg in deeper.<br /><br />With a Storm scope of 10 to 1 this is even more true.<br /><br />So do you need chain? <br /><br />If your going to anchor in 97 feet of water and have 200 feet of rode you need a very heavy chain and a lot of luck.<br /><br />If you are going to anchor in 17 feet of water and have 200 feet of rode you do not need any chain or any luck.<br /><br />I have two anchors on my 21 foot boat one 4 Pound Fortress FX-7 with 4 foot of 1/4 inch Stainless chain and 250 foot of line. Second a 8 pound danfort with 5 feet of 5/16 inch galvanized chain and 350 of road. I anchored in currents of 6 knots and wind of 37 knots with gust to 45 and 6 foot seas and neither anchor has ever come loose. When you go to pull anchor in these conditions if is not fun or easy.<br /><br />Lots of quotes about length of chain from difference sources. I taken both the US Coast Aux and the US Power Squradrons class 3 times each so I got out the most resent book of each and checked on anchoring. US Coast Guard AUX talks a lot about proper scope but does not even mention chain. US Power Squdrons also talks a lot of about proper scope and one place does mention a rode of line and chain but has no length or ratio at all. In class the descusion has been a lot like this Post.<br /><br />I will tell you this I seen hundreds of boats drift by while we were fishing and every one hardly had out enough line to reach bottom. Some you see have another 50 feet of line tangled up in the front of the boat but if no one tell then to put out all the line they have they will never use it.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

thank you boatist for injecting some sense to this thread.

 

[Stratocaster]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

I have no knowledge of US Power Sqadron course material. However, Canadian Power Squadron's text for both the "Boating Course" and the "Piloting Course" are specific about using chain and how to calculate scope. This I know, since I taught the anchoring module a few years ago.<br /><br />I agree that in a soft muddy bottom in calm conditions, luck will dictate that 4 feet of chain will probably work just fine for your entire boating career. And you'll be able to tell your friends that the chain thing is a myth....you've never had a problem.<br /><br />But the same logic can be applied to carrying no flares, no lifejackets and no bailer. "Heck, I've boated for 20 years and never needed those things, why carry them?" See what I mean? It's all about preparing for the unexpected. And even 10 feet of chain is better than 4, and takes up NO more space than rope. Why chance it?<br /><br />So, my point (for those who have read this far) is that, just because nothing bad has happened after using iffy equipment and techniques, well that's flawed logic. I guess the multitude of books and articles written on anchoring (I recommend "Staying Put"...great book) are theory only <br /><br />But hey...it's your boat, not mine.

 

[txswinner]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Guess my mushroom anchor with 1/4 inch nylon rope leaves me in deep trouble. Kidding I fish on lakes and only use anchor to slow down if washing ashore in a bad storm.

 

[Osprey]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

I guess I just can't let this one go. Again, I am coming from the perspective of anchoring in exposed and/or open ocean conditions.<br /><br />So if I go with the 4' of chain argument, what exactly does the chain do for me? Why not just forget the chain and go with a good quality anchor rope?<br /><br />I have another example, a friend had just purchased a new boat which came with a 4 or 5 foot of chain anchor setup. He decideded to do an overnighter at San Clemente Island about a fifty five mile run from San Diego. They set the anchor and went to sleep. At about two in the morning they awoke to the sound of the hull bouncing on rocks. The short chain length had allowed the rope to abrade on bottom structure and finally be cut free. They spent a long cold several hours on the high and dry rocks next to there new pride and joy. They were lucky in that the new boat was floated off with coast guard assistance and had little damage other than the prop and hull scrapes.<br /><br />This friends first advice to me when buying my first boat was don't skimp on your anchor tackle. A boat length of chain is cheap insurance.

 

[simple]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Thank you for all the replies on this issue.

 

[Dyna]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Newbie question so please bear with me....why the chain? What is the actual purpose?

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

The extra weight stops the anchor pulling upwards so it helps it to dig in.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

osprey- decent example, but like most accidents, it was caused by multiple mistakes. 55 miles offshore and no gps? if yes to gps, then why did he not have his anchor alarm set? would have known they broke free.

 

[Richard Petersen]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

I must admit I have failed to anchor really solidly sometimes. And so has everyone else. No one can anchor in heavy seaweeds, dilibertly or accidently. It fills the flukes or the hooks of a grappeler and you slide for ever. That leaves us with. Know your bottoms. And you never have a problem. The newer NOOA satalite maps even state the type of bottom material if you anchor in strange waters.

 

[Stratocaster]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Just so everyone knows, all official nautical charts tell you what the sea bottom is in all major areas. So do chart chips for chartplotters.

 

[milkyway]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

As I have said, I have only 4 ft of chain. But I will prefer to have maybe at least 12ft. when boating aroung Manhattan when water depth averages 80 ft. Last month,it was on tv, someone got saved by the coast guard coz the boat had mechanical problems under the verrazano bridge and they had an anchor line a little too short and the wake kept slamming them under the bridge's seawall.

 

[dorelse]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

I think its important to maintain some perspective here.<br /><br />Guys who boat and anchor on the coast (ie. ocean) will have much higher requirements needed for boating in conditions that a lot of us freshwater lake boaters will never (emphasis on never) see.<br /><br />I certainly don't need 18 ft of 1/2" chain to hold my 18ft bowrider in my 400 yard (yes yards) wide 25 ft max depth lake. I don't need GPS as I can see the shore in 360 degrees, and can safely anchor with a rope. <br /><br />We'll never see 10ft waves, never see a tropical storm (or hurricane) in the Upper Midwest, and therefore our needs/requirements aren't the same as you folks braving the ocean. Its a different set of requirements, so keep that in mind.<br /><br />I've never had my boat's anchor come loose in all the years I've been boating in Northern MN & Iowa. My setup according to the Ocean sailors would be a joke, but around here, it is the absolute standard. In fact, I've never even seen a chain on an anchor here.<br /><br />The original thread poster is from WI. Unless he's on Lake Superior or Michigan, his setup sounds fine for the conditions he'll see.<br /><br />On my lake, the biggest waves I've ever seen were from a Hurricane deckboat on the lake, nothing weather related. Up here, the lakes are well protected by tall pines, and are small enough that the waves can't get very big...there just isn't the mass of water & weather to allow it.<br /><br />So try to keep in mind, that he doesn't need a 200 lbs anchor and 60ft of 4" chain to keep a 20ft boat from moving in our neck of the woods.<br /><br />For the ocean boaters, I'm sure your setups need to be much more robust, but for around here, he's fine.

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

I have 5' on a 21'. Have not had an issue yet up to 25' depth.

 

[BillP]

Re: 4 feet of chain?

Wow, I didn't read this message until now and look at all the different opinions. Hope my response doesn't upset anyone. What I see posted is blame on not having chain when the blame should be on the captain for not using enough scope. All chain does is keep the anchor line flat so it isn't working against the anchor. Another 20lbs-30lbs of chain will give only 20-30?lbs of surface friction resistance on the bottom...it grabs nothing except mud in the links. It lets you ride on shorter scope until the wind picks up and makes the angle same as a line without chain...which is where proper scope takes over. <br /><br />I'm with Boatist. Chain is for chafe and it helps set the anchor faster. Scope is what keeps the anchor set properly. Anchor size/type is what keeps the boat "anchored". 5:1 scope is considered MINIMUM for normal weather (even with all chain) and 7:1 better. 10:1-15:1 is best and will keep the anchor line flat. Those are published numbers from any of the well known authorities...Chapman and Knights are two you can reference. Knights is what the USCG (and US Navy)was using when I went to USCG school for license ratings. As mentioned by Boatist, chain isn't the issue but scope is. Only ships use chain weight to hold and that is for fair weather only. In bad weather they will drag...that's why they pull anchor and head to sea when tropical storms happen.<br /><br />On small outboard boats I don't use any chain unless anchoring in rocks, etc. It's easier to store and handle. I go with 7:1 scope minimum and usually 10:1. On bigger boats I've kept the chain length around 8'-10' just to make it easier to set. With that said, I spent aprox 2 yrs on the hook while cruising (never tied to a dock except to load supplies) the Bahamas and never dragged or had a problem...but I saw plenty of boats drag that used long chain on short scope. Scope and the right size anchor is the answer. <br /><br />Peace Bros.