Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

[andy6374]

I have a couple of other posts about this engine but not related. It's a 1979 50hp Johnson Seahorse Tiller Pull Start. I am trying to get to run for my uncle. I was laid up for a while.<br /><br />The first thing I did was rebuild the carbs, replace the waterpump and put in new spark plugs. I also replaced the fuel lines, new primer bulb, fuel hose fittings and new portable tank.<br /><br />I basically damm near pulled my shoulder out of place trying to get this thing started yesterday. Every now and thing it would give me a little puff and I would see some smoke, but that is it. I can't tell you for sure if it is consistently getting spark because I can't pull it and see the light from the spark tester at the same time, hopefullly my neighbor will be around tonight. However, I doubt this the problem. What do you think?<br /><br />Also...<br />When I turn the tiller handle until it will turn no more the throttle shutters in the carb throats still have a ways to go. It turns the throttle lever far enough so that the max spark advance screw hits its stop, but not nearly enough to fully open the carbs. And I just can't figure out how do adjust it for the life of me.<br /><br />Plus...<br />This morning I noticed lots of exhaust goo around the area where the lower unit meets the mid section. I would normally expect it near the prop, but not here. The bolts for the L/U are fully tighten. Is this normal?<br /><br /><br />P.S. I wish this think had a choke of some sort!<br /><br />Thanks

 

[ezeke]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

There is supposed to be a manual choke lever on the lower carburetor. <br /><br />Check the inner exhaust housing where it connects with the gearcase. There is supposed to be a rubber seal. It may be dislocated.

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

I don't see any hose nipples for such a thing. The main fuel line runs to the top carb and then another fuel line runs from the top to bottom carb but this is only for fuel flow, no choke though.<br /><br />However, the carbs are interesting (different) on this engine. There are two sets of throttle shutters in each carb. One is controlled by the throttle lever and the other is controlled by an arm you can pull out or push in on the front of the motor. What is this for? Maybe its aids in and idle mixture....

 

[ezeke]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

Push in or out is the choke. Close the choke plates fully when cold starting.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

Good grief, no wonder your shoulder is sore. Gotta have choke for a cold start!

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

I'll try again. Choke plates...my infancy in the world of outboards is rearing its ugly face.<br /><br /><br />Now what about the throttle. Anyone have any ideas?<br /><br />Maybe I just post some pictures

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

Here's an update. I had the choke plates fully closed at idle and the thing just doesn't want to kick over. Both cylinders have spark. It only coughed once tonight, its not even trying to kick over. I sprayed some premix in the carbs and wouldn't start, so its not the carbs.<br /><br />Haven't checked the compression yet though. However, there is enough compression that my arm is sore once again <br /><br />Any ideas?

 

[ezeke]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

So, when you put the flywheel back on did you torque it back to 105 ft lbs?

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

I never took the flywheel off

 

[ob]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

What do the sparkplugs look like after a failed starting attempt? Are they wet?They should be,or you're getting no fuel to the cylinders.Otherwise,if you're following the proper cold start procedure and you have good spark to both and compression it'll fire.<br /><br />You can either rig a spark tester or buy one at the auto parts store and test for good spark on both plug leads.Should jump a 7/16 gap with a crisp blue spark at cranking speed.Compression numbers should be around 100 give or take and both cylinders within 10%.<br /><br />Do you pump up the fuel primer bulb until firm and holding before the cold start attempt?If the bulb won't pump up firm,you got a fuel leak or the carb float needles aren't holding.<br /><br />Post back with replies to these couple of questions and someone can surely help you peg down your issue.

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

I will check the condition of the plugs. Like I said I sprayed a premix down the carbs to no avail. <br /><br />I have an inline spark tester and have spark, although it can't measure the spark gap jump. I will pick one up.<br /><br />Haven't checked compression.<br /><br />The primer bulb gets very hard once the carb bowls get full.<br /><br />Cold start procedure:<br />1.) Pump the pirmer bulb till really hard.<br />2.) Close the choke plates.<br />3.) Advance the timing a bit with the tiller handle. Motivation here was that most motors start better in a high idle.<br />4.) Then pull like hell.<br /><br />###########################################<br />While I was writing this reply I decided to go outside to pump the primer bulb, crank it a bit and then check the condition of plugs so I could report back...Well I didn't except it to start because it hasn't yet, but on the first pull started fired right up. However, since I didn't expect this and since I was just going to crank it to get a look at the plugs, I didn't hook up the water muffs. I had the hose with the muffs attached lying next to the engine so I ran like a bat out of hell to start the hose and then attached it to the engine. Maybe took ~30-45 seconds to get the water going. Did I damage the new impeller? I lubed the housing with a water based lubricant to defend against impeller wear if a dry start occured. Hopefully this helped.<br /><br />The damm kill switch wouldn't work, I held it down and nothing.

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

Allright so on my drive into work I was attempting to sort out why it started this morning on the first pull and never before.<br /><br />First...When I did get the water muffs attached it died shortly thereafter and there was no water coming out the tell-tale. No water out the tell-tale alone tells me the watertube didn't get inserted into the pump. When installing the L/U my attention was focused on getting the shift shaft back in and getting the bolt thru it, not the alignment of the watertube <br /> <br /><br />Second...remember it started with no water running.<br /><br />Third...Since the watertube isn't hooked up correctly, when the muffs are on the L/U is filling up with water. I think possibly getting in to the exhaust of the midsection or at least creating some sort of pressure against the exhaust gases trying to exscape.<br /><br />Lastly... I think it is this combo which has resulted in the engine not starting. I think the water in the exhaust was messing things up. No water in the exhaust and she fired up on the first pull, hell it started on 1/2 of the first pull.<br /><br />I put the water on and it stalled.<br /><br /><br />What do you guys think?<br />When now it has good compression and spark and is getting fuel. It sounded good while it was running, which was only a minute.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

After you get the water tube problem fixed, run the motor in neutral in a barrel with enough water to reach the connection between the gearcase and the midsection.<br /><br />At some point you really need to tell us what the cylinder compression is.

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

Your right I need to give you a compression reading, but I don't have a gauge and that will have to wait until I can borrow one. It ran fine when it started, plus the guy my uncle bought the engine from said he checked compression and it tested fine so I guessing (bad idea) that it is fine still.<br /><br />But the do you think the water tube not being connected, filling up the L/U and possibly the exhaust tube would cause the thing not to start.<br /><br />It just seems to be too big of a coincidence, i.e., no start with muffs...starts without muffs...put muffs on it stalls...won't restart with muffs on.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

drop the lower and reinstall. the only way to know.

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

Congrats on the 1000 posts Lietuenant...<br /><br />Yep, I drop it, reconnect and report back.

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

So I drop the L/U and as I did I could see the water tube wasn't in the water tube insert in the waterpump. So I fixed then bolt the L/U back up.... Still no start. I check the plugs after cranking and they are wet and a little oily.<br /><br />I will try to get my hands on a compression gauge ASAP.<br /><br />I wonder why it started so easily this morning?????<br /><br />Could I be flooding it?

 

[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

So I took some compression readings today. Not so good. Top cylinder 100 psi, bottom cylinder 60 psi. <br /><br />I pulled the cylinder head. Only broke 1 bolt, not bad for an old salty. However, I didn't see any damage that was obvious. The cylinder walls were smooth. The bottom piston was in good shape. The cross-hatch pattern wasn't evident, perhaps the rings are broken on the bottom cylinder. Maybe the head gasket was leaking? I took some pics of the bottom cylinder as well as the cylinder head, what do you think?<br /><br /><br />

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[andy6374]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

^bump

 

[ezeke]

Re: Need help(79' 50hp seahorse)!

From the pictures, things look ok. <br /><br />I see the 03 stamp on the piston, so you can't take much risk with that block. Guess you should consider new rings at this point.