did my seafoam clone let me down???

[sprouticus]

hello iboats.<br /><br />OK, first of all I did not use seafoam, I cannot find it up hear in Canada. I did use a product that claims to do the same things that seafoam claims to do, it is called revive. <br /><br />I used the product because I have a older 6 hp johnson that I would like to use as a kicker (I believe it is a 1963) I can get the motor to run OK, but it stalls at low RPM,s and it is a little difficult to start without a shot of carb cleaner before I pull, (then it starts right away). Before I used this "revive" my compression was 65, 63, I just took another reading, and now my compression is 45, 41. <br /><br />I would really like to get this motor running good, hopefully without sinking too much money into it. I have considered changing the coils, but was hoping this would improve my compression and the motor would run better. <br /><br />the directions did say to use the whole can, but since it was a smaller engine, I only used about half, planning on using the other half on my chainsaw. Should I use the whole can?<br /><br />Any other suggestions???<br /><br />Thanx for reading.i'm going out to the back yard to get the model # of the boat.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

How did you do the decarb? And have you had a chance to run it on the water yet?

 

[byacey]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

I get Seafoam at UAP NAPA Auto Parts here in Edmonton, I would check with your local Napa.

 

[sprouticus]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

I put my old plugs back in (had JUST changed them and didn't know if this would wreck them), I started the motor in my back yard in a barrel and with muffs on (barrel not quite high enough for water intake). I set the motor at about half throttle or so in gear, and after engine warmed up, i started spraying the "revive" into carb. I continued spraying till the can was almost half empty, stopping when the engine was about to die, and spraying again when RPM's picked back up. then I sprayed enough in the carb at once to stall the engine. This was what the directions said to do. <br /><br />directions also said to wait 10 mins, start the engine again, and open and close the throttle until product is expelled. What I did was get called away after about 5 mins, so I quickly started the motor, ran for about 5 secs, and then left. 24 hours later I came back and did what the directions told me to, with the motor running in a barrel, on the muffs, and in neutral.<br /><br />BTW, model # is CD-25C

 

[sprouticus]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

I did check with NAPA, they never heard of it here. This is a Canadian tire product...costs about 7-8 bucks

 

[sprouticus]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

Can anyone tell me what to do, or what I did wrong??

 

[byacey]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

Give the NAPA here a call and ask them to tell you who the distributor is - then your local NAPA should be able to bring it in for you. I'm surprised they never heard of it. <br />NAPA St. Albert, Alberta (780) 458-9616, or Napa disribution center (780) 455-9151

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

you can order seafoam right here at the iboats store.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

Well NAPA in Texas has a floor display of it; I mean a cardboard hootus that Sea Foam put in the stor,; right out in the middle of the floor, and then filled it with their products. Display is about half empty right now so someone besides me is buying it.<br /><br />Mark

 

[Mike Robinson]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

tashadaddy<br /><br />The problem with us Canadians ordering something from the USA is by the time we're done paying duty, shipping, etc., the item is very expensive.

 

[itstippy]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

Unfortunately, I don't think a dose of Seafoam or any other decarb remedy will help your motor much, sprouts. You had lousy compression and after a treatment with Brand X Decarb you have terrible compression. Squirting oil in the sparkplug holes might bring the compression back up to lousy, whatever that's worth. Your compression woes are more than stuck, carboned up rings. It sure sounds like cylinders worn out of speck. I'm afraid to fix it properly you are looking at honing the cylinders and installing new rings, minimum. Pull the head and bypass covers and take a look to confirm this. There are some GREAT step-by-steps on rebuilding small HP motors posted on this site. Paul Moir put one together that includes honing and reringing - I can't find the link right now. Search for it, it's good reading with pics so at least you'll know where you're at.<br />Hard starting and poor idle are classic symptoms of shot compression on the small HP outboards. They run well at mid to high RPM's but at low RPM's it's like they can't suck in enough good fuel/air mix to run. A lack of vaccuum on the upstroke, caused by the same problem as bad compression on the downstroke: poor seal between the rings and the cylinder walls.<br />Maybe I'm wrong and you DO have a stuck-ring-from-carbon situation in both cylinders. A $3 can of Seafoam can't hurt I guess. But don't get your hopes too high, it's not a ring-job in a can.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

I don't think you did anything wrong. I am skeptical of the compression reading, though. The first readings are low to begin with, but I don't know why they would go down even further after the decarb. Maybe one, but not both. Did you take both readings when the motor was warmed up? Possibly the gauge is off(It happens). Can you try another one? Others may have more input...<br /><br />EDIT: Ditto on what itstippy says....

 

[itstippy]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

Link to Paul's rebuild info:<br /><br /> http://www.shareaproject.com/pages/imageDetail,p,182,i,2526,00.html <br /><br />Click the little ">>" thing on each page to advance through the slide show. Great stuff.

 

[sprouticus]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

thanx for the tips guys. I know the second set of readings were taken after it was warmed up, but to be honest with you, I can't remember if the engine was warm or not for the first reading. I used the same tester both times, and I assume it is fairly accurate because last summer I used it on my bigger outboard and got readings over 100. I will go take new readings on the 6 hp, and also on the 90 hp ..maybe the readings are off and just my guage is messed up. <br /><br />ONe more thing. When spraying this "revive" into the carb the engine of course started smoking really bad. (I thought I was prepared for it, but wow, it was really bad) After using half the can it still smoked (but has since stopped after the product has been expelled) My question is......is the smoke cause by the carbon burning off, or the product itself burning, because if it is the former, I believe I still have carbon left in there, and should use the rest of the can. This motor is over 40 years old, and although it has not seen much action in the 6-7 years I have owned it, I am sure it has seen plenty of hours in it's life, and never been de-carboned before.

 

[sprouticus]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

well I just re-checked compression, and the 6-hp is still reading in the 40's (checked on a cold engine). To test out the gauge (and for my own peace of mind) I did a test on my 90hp while I was out there. Test came back as 105, 100, 105, 100. I am assuming that the tester is close if not exactly on. <br /><br /> I have too much going on this summer to afford a rebuild to this engine that I do not truly need.(just thought it would be better to troll with than the 90). So I think I will end up putting it back in the crawl space under the house until I get some more funds together, unless ofcourse one of you has another cheap suggestion for me. <br /><br />thanx again for all your input.

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

It will never run right with that low of compression. Best to put it to bed for awhile until you can really dig into it....

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

I draw the line at 70 psi.Lower than that you really have to fight to make things work.<br /><br />DHP

 

[sprouticus]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

oh well, the lousy thing about this is that I had spent the better part of my week making a homemade steering device for this motor. I hooked it up to the big motor so they both turn the same time. I also rebuilt the kicker motor bracket for it. I did get the motor tunning before working on these other things, I guess I should have looked into it more. <br /><br />For the record, I am assuming you all would agree that I need new rings, gaskets, and a honing and then I should be good to go? Do you think I would need new oversized pistons? Anyone have a guess on how much it would cost to get this thing running really good?

 

[itstippy]

Re: did my seafoam clone let me down???

It's impossible to tell if you need new pistons or can get by with just a honing and rings unless you pull the head and bypass covers off and examine the piston skirts and the cylinder walls. You use an inside micrometer to measure how worn out the cylinder bores are. Disassemby and reassembly by a shop costs big $. Most shops won't mess with a 1963 6HP. Or a '73, '83, '93 or 2003 for that matter. Shops work on the big motors. But a shop might "mic" it for you and give you the measurments if you bring it in with the head off. If you do your own work you can get it done reasonably, but you'll still have more into it than it would fetch if you went to sell it. Way, way cheaper than buying a new one though. Rebuilding a small HP outboard is a labor of love, not a way to save lots of money. It's a great small project motor if you're into tinkering with outboards. <br />If it "mics" out of spec so bad that you can't just hone and re-ring then a very viable option is to watch eBay for a suitable 6HP powerhead. Folks strip outboards and sell the pieces on eBay all the time. It's easier and more profitable to ship pieces of old outboards than to sell the thing whole. You have everything you need to turn a good powerhead into a complete outboard. Solid 6HP powerheads with good compression sell on eBay for about $30 during Winter. If everything else on your motor is good, start watching eBay. You could also call Twin City Outboards and inquire about a used but servicable powerhead. With your mechanical ability you would have no problems swapping out the trimmings.