1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

[lancsjohn]

This engine as not been run for over 10 years, last time out it seized due to water impellor failure.Engine freed off as soon as it cooled.<br />I decided to try and get it started again as the piston and rings look ok and compression was over 110psi with oil squirted into bores, rings look ok through side plates. I replaced water impellor, took flywheel off and reset points and get sparks at both plugs, cleaned carb and inspected copper air inlet flap valves they look ok. But she refuses to start, I tried squirting wd40 into carb and easystart just get the odd ignition fire then dies. I wonder whether the crankcase seals are leaking? there is what appears to be a pressure balance pipe betwween the top and bottom crankcases, when I dissconnect this and pull the engine over some drops of fuel blow out, is there any way I can check the crankcase precompression? Any other ideas ?

 

[JB]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

Go to Engine FAQs Forum, John.<br /><br />Do the "Awakening a sleeping outboard" article, then the "Outboard wont start" article.<br /><br />They should get you running.<br /><br />Good luck, and welcome aboard.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

The "pressure balance pipe" is actually part of the crankcase oil recirculation system. It takes oil from the bottom main crank bearing and injects it into the top.<br />Even if the crankcase were leaking pretty badly, the engine will fire. It will just not idle very well. Start with the basics. Obviously you have compression. That leaves spark and fuel (since on that outboard, spark quality is related to spark timing). If the ignition system is healthy it'll produce sparks 3/8" long or so off each cylinder. If you've got that, chances are you've got a fuel delivery problem. In that case, most likely the carburetor is in need of a cleaning and rebuilding. It's pretty easy work.<br /><br />Test out that spark and tell us what you find. Cracked insulation on the ignition coils is often the source of troubles. It'll cause a healthy spark, but one that'll only jump 1/8" or so.<br /><br />If you do not torque the flywheel nut to 40-45ft/lbs, likely the flywheel key will shear once it does start.

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

Originally posted by Paul Moir:<br /> The "pressure balance pipe" is actually part of the crankcase oil recirculation system. It takes oil from the bottom main crank bearing and injects it into the top.<br />Even if the crankcase were leaking pretty badly, the engine will fire. It will just not idle very well. Start with the basics. Obviously you have compression. That leaves spark and fuel (since on that outboard, spark quality is related to spark timing). If the ignition system is healthy it'll produce sparks 3/8" long or so off each cylinder. If you've got that, chances are you've got a fuel delivery problem. In that case, most likely the carburetor is in need of a cleaning and rebuilding. It's pretty easy work.<br /><br />Test out that spark and tell us what you find. Cracked insulation on the ignition coils is often the source of troubles. It'll cause a healthy spark, but one that'll only jump 1/8" or so.<br /><br />If you do not torque the flywheel nut to 40-45ft/lbs, likely the flywheel key will shear once it does start.

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

this is very useful information, I checked the sparks by rigging up some lenghts of wire inside small diameter plastic tube and found that sparks would jump 1/4" but not 3/8" coil insulation as cracks on both coils. So although the plugs on there own seem to spark ok when in the cylinder under pressure I guess the spark is not able to ignite the fuel ?<br />I will try and locate some new coils and condensers in the uk, in the mean time is it any use trying to reinsulate them with aruldite or some other glue?

 

[RPJS]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

You will find the parts you need at South Coast Marine 01202 482695. I came across them while looking for coils for my OB, very helpfull.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

no it will not help. they are head to the grave yard. do not use easy start. use premixed gas and oil, in a spray or squeeze bottle. the starting spray has not lubricant and burns at a high temp. thus it is easy to burn a hole in a 2 cycle piston. a complete carb cleaning and rebuild may be in your future, along with a water pump service and new impeller.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

Yup, that's the trinity of revitalizing old Johnson/Evinrudes: Water pump, Carb kit, ignition coils.<br /><br />Some folks who had a hard time getting parts sort of successfully sealed their old ignition coils with silicone as a temporary measure. It's really the ideal thing for the job. But chances are they'll just fall apart on you when you take them out.<br />New coils cost about $20 each over here. I like the aftermarket Sierra (18-5181) coils better than the factory ones personally. <br /><br />You didn't say what the compression was before you pumped some oil in. You might try blowing it out and testing again to see if you have a viable engine. Even bad ones test good with a bunch of oil in their cylinders.

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

I will recheck the compression without oiling the cylinders what pressure would a viable engine give?

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

I would say over 80psi, with no more than a 10% variance between cylinders on that engine. A lot depends on how you test though so post your results. Give it a few pulls for each test if you don't have electric start on it. The pressure should build quickly.<br /><br />Often these old engines have a stuck piston ring or two which can be freed with decarb solution to restore some compression. But that's a whole lot more easily done if it's running.

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

rechecked compression manual start one pull 80psi, two pulls 90psi, 5 pulls still 90psi, same on both cylinders.Wish I had electric start!<br />I have stripped the insulation from one of the old ignition coils very interesting how fine the HT winding wire is. Ofcourse I broke it! but have found the end and will reattach just to see what happens when I reinsulate with silicone.<br />please keep the advice coming.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

Sounds good to me. I once tried fixing the ignition coils before I found out how inexpensive they were. You're right, those HT windings have got to be 1/10th the size of a hair.<br />Would you believe the electric start kit is still available from the dealer for $400 US? Actually, it was pretty popular on the 18hp and it's brothers the 20hp (60s/early 70s) and 25hp (60s-up till mid/late 70s). If you haunt the local outboard graveyards or ebay you shouldn't have too much trouble finding what you need.

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

does the electric start kit include some method of recharging the battery? Also what's the recomended gas to oil ratio on these older engines?

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

forgot to ask about carb. settings can you tell me how many turns open the two adjustment screws should be set?

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

Hi everyone we have a runner!<br />New coils arrived today so were quickly fitted and the engine quickly fired up.At first I used some fuel 25/1 that I had been using in my Flymower to cut the grass, I couldn't see the exhaust for smoke but felt the water coming out OK.<br />I then mixed some 50/1 and the smoke cleared some I now need to get the carb settings sorted and cure small water leak on cylinder head inspection flange,I am hoping a little silicone will do the trick.Also need to cure small fuel leak from main jet spindle I guess the rubber O rings are worn, any suggessions for number of turns open on the jets? is 50/1 mixer OK on these older engines or should I use more oil and ignore the smoke?<br />thanks to all who helped John.<br />Bye the way 2 coils Bombarder BRP US INC.part number 0584477 cost approx 86 US dollars including post from English supplier, iboats.com don't post to UK.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

Ouch, that is close to what I used to pay for them!<br /><br />If that flange you're talking about is held on by three screws, that's the thermostat cover. There ought to be one beneath there but sometimes they get taken out to "cure" an overheating problem. The same sort of folk who would cure a broken leg by removing the patient's tounge so he couldn't complain about it I'm sure.<br /><br />The high speed and low speed adjustment valves are held in adjustment and tight with packing rather than o-rings. In a pinch I've subsituted teflon spigot packing from a plumber's supply. But you may be able to stop the leaking simply by tightening the packing nut at the base of the adjustment valve spindle.<br /><br />Your engine was originally specified to run 24:1. There are reliable rumors of a memo allowing 50:1 on some engines built prior to '64 (the year the 50:1 switch was made) including yours. See the oil mix faq in the FAQ forum for details.<br /><br />You need to use oil meant for water cooled engines (ie, outboards), which is different from the stuff meant for your weedwacker. It'll have the NMMA's TC-W3 certification mark on the bottle. No harm done running the other stuff - it'll just crud up the outboard a lot faster. I find some brands cause less smoke than others, so experiment until you find one you like.<br /><br />Hope that helps, and it's good to hear it's running!<br /><br />Oh, and follow Joe Reeves method for setting those mixture knobs once you've got them tight:<br /> http://forums.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=030558

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

yes the flange is held on by three screws and there is no sign of a thermostat under it, with it cause any problems to run without thermostat?

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

It won't idle so well and it'll wear out a lot faster (since you're running the engine cold a lot). I would put it on your list of things to do, but no need to worry about it just yet.<br />They only cost $10 here...

 

[lancsjohn]

Re: 1963 fastwin 18 hp will not start.

I will try and set up the carb tomorrow and run it in a water tub for 10-15 minutes and see if it settles down ok, then report back