Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

[cschauerj]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Hey, I'm back. The word is in. The diagnosis is that the circulator pump is leaking and has in turn caused the alternator to fail do to corrosion. And because the seals are supposed to be inspected on a regular basis and replaced if needed the warrantee did not cover anything. They wrote up an estitmate to replace the pump, alternator, and all the belts and pulleys for $1200.!!!!<br />Just my luck. Needless to say, I'll be purchasing a Mercruiser manuel this week and starting on it myself. I figure I can probably get away with cleaning the pulleys up and replacing the pump, alternator and belts for around $500. Any tricks to replacing the pump housing? Will I need any special tools other that the harmonic dampner puller? You mentioned an AC/Delco alt. if I'm correct. What is the difference between a car and marine alternator? Is there harm in saving some money and heading to the auto parts store? I'm not a happy camper right now. I didn't expect the expenses so soon after purchasing the boat. On the bright side, once I get this done hopefully I won't have any more surprises again for awhile.

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Hi cschauerj, what a bummer...just how bad does the alternator look? Do you have a digital camera? Unfortunately there is a difference in marine alt's. They usually have explosion protection built in. If we can't rebuild the one you got, I'd recommend spending the coin on a delco 10si series if it'll bolt on. Some parts are the same as automotives(cheap cheap)But lets not let this set you back. Sounds like you're mechanicaly inclined. I'm willing to help with the electrical. Never done an alternator like yours, but never seen one I couldn't repair either.Parts are our only draw back but I have several sources.<br />See if you can borrow a digital camera and we'll have some fun!!! and maybe even save some coin......probably enough for a camera...LOL<br />

 

[cschauerj]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Didn't realize they could be rebuilt. Since it's an odd manufacturer do you think it's even feasible to find parts for it? First things first, It will probably be a week or two before I find the time to strip the front of the motor down. I've got access to a digital camera, so when the time comes I'll get back with you. Thanks again Schematic!

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

One more thing.......odds are good that the only thing wrong with the alt is brushes and springs, so cheer up!!!<br />

 

[cschauerj]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Long time no speak. I finally got everthing apart last week. The alt. looked like it had alot of corrosion inside. That being so and with my free time being pressed lately and me being impatient, I wussed out and bought a new alternator. I really wanted to get back on the water again before it gets too cold even at the greater expense of buying new. I found a deal on the same alt. that was in the boat online. No luck finding the Delco. So anyways the leaking waterpump has been replaced, cleaned the pulleys, new belts, put in fresh oil and plugs as well as the new alternator, and I should be good to go right? Wrong. I went to start it tonight and click...click...click... Same as before. By the way, I double checked that both batteries were up to the task and took them to get topped off and checked properly. I know you had suggested checking the solenoid. My mercruiser manuel shows two solenoids. One built onto the starter housing and a slave solenoid independently located(similar to what you might find in a car). I can only find the one that's attached to the starter. Is that what I'm aiming for? Are they combined on some systems?<br /><br />On to the bigger problem at hand. After several attemps the motor finally turned and started. I'm still not reading any charge on my gauge, and the auto. choke is still not operating properly. I'm ready to tape the **** choke plate open so that I can use my boat. Who needs an alternator anyways? That's what battery chargers are for.... On a serious note, I replaced and repaired everything the marina had noted on their quote to fix the boat. I'm not impressed with their diagnosis. This boat is going to drive me to drinking!!! Did I mention that the water pump on my car went out the other day too. What a week. Any ideas?

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Well hello again......still troubles eh? Remember how I don't like replacing a component until I prove it bad? Now you see why. That's why I go through such detail. As in the post on 'October 24, 2001 11:01 PM', the next step was to CHECK SUPPORTIVE WIRING. This is when you 'bailed' on me.....LOL. <br />>lets start where we should have left off.<br /><br />-How many wires going to alternator?<br />-Trace them and tell us where they go.<br />(I'm guessing 2-3 small wires and 1 large)<br />-What letters are labeled to them on the alternator casting?<br />-Once it started cranking, did it crank at normal speed?<br />-What is voltage at battery 'posts' while cranking? (right on the posts)<br />-If it refuses to crank and just 'clicks', find the source of the 'clicks'. That will lead you to either the control solenoid or starter solenoid.<br /><br />>we are dealing with two problems, and I'll try not to confuse you...... <br />Get back with this info and we'll continue...<br />I'm sicker than a dog with this darn flue, so I may be a little crabby!!!<br /><br />

 

[cschauerj]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Hey Schematic. How are you doing these days? Did you lick that flu yet? If you remember correctly I didn't just blindly replace the alternator hoping it would do the trick. I thought I might have gotten a hand from the warrantee company and ended up having to pay for the marina's diagnosis that the alternator was bad. I bought a new one only after a "trained professional" told me mine had failed. HaHa. Anyways this is what I've since done. I decided to concentrate my efforts on the starting problem because that seemed a little more immediate. I recruited someone to crank while I used the voltmeter on the solenoid as you suggested. Bad starter. I know it was a longshot but I contacted the warrantee company and believe it or not they replaced it. They wouldn't replace my corroded water pump or the alternator but they replaced the ball of rust starter I had. Go figure. Anyways, with the new starter installed my alternator kicked in. My gauge reads correctly. I've got 14.5 volts at both batteries. The electric choke is operating properly too. Normally somebody would be jumping for joy but I'm one of those people who wants to understand why things do what they do. Any correlation between the starting system wiring and the charging system's? Another odd thing: When I start the boat initially there is no indication the alternator is working. Only after revving the engine does the alt. kick in and then it works at any RPM. It does this consistantly. Is it normal for an alt. to operate like this? Well, I hope all is well with you. I'm going to try to take my boat out tommorow. Upper seventies and sunny, should be a nice one. <br /><br />Confused but happy,<br />cschauerj

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

well hello..............!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />finally over this flu<br /><br />>if the battery cable goes directly to the starter solenoid terminal, then the alternator-accessory connection is made at the same terminal. If this terminal gets corroded, the starter and charging system are effected.(sounds like you had a bad connection at the solenoid 'batt' terminal.)<br /><br />>not familiar with mondo, but a high cut-in rpm can be the result of a few things...<br /><br />>pulley ratio (quit possible for marine appl.)<br />>excitation resistor value too high<br />>indicator bulb burnt(if so equipped)<br />>partial failure of diode trio<br />>alternator design characteristics<br /><br />****************************************<br />>what rpm has to be reached to start charging?<br />>what is the alt. pulley diameter?<br />>what is the crank pulley diameter?<br />>with key on, engine off, what is the voltage to all the wires going to the alternator?<br />>is there a charge indicator light?<br /><br />good boating tomorrow!!!!<br />

 

[cschauerj]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

My God you're quick! I get the impression you are on here 24/7. Where do you find the time to work on your boat or make a living for that matter. Your wife must miss you.JK It only needs like 1200-1500 RPMs to start functioning. Once it's reaced it, it is making current even at idle. There is no charge indicator light. The alt. pulley is approx. 2.5" and the crank pulley is approx. 8.5", so it should be spinning at a pretty good rate. I don't know what the wires read yet but I'll find out and get back. Take care.

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

With that ratio, I'd say there's nothing wrong. When started cold, your fast ilde should be above that and start the charge process.<br />>I'm not on here that long at a time, but I have a pc at work which I peek at from time to time. I also have one near my work shop which I peek at as I'm walking by..........but you're right........I don't get much done!!!! <br />Wife is close by doing her crafts and I get her involved with this as much I can....LOL<br /><br />

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

My math was bad for a moment!! That is more than a 3:1 ratio......so it does seem a little high for cut-in rpm. Unless this is normal from a mando alt?<br /><br />does anyone have the same alt. or know if this is common to mando?

 

[cschauerj]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

I was wrong. The cut in RPM is higher, more in the neighborhood of 1800 to 2000. A fast idle won't cut it alone, I had to rev it to get it to function. I wonder if I got another bad alternator. I made it out the other day anyway only to have another problem come up. Some apparent clog in a fuel line. I have it running now but it's frustrating. It was too rough out to fix on the water, I just about got sick to my stomach trying. Luckily for me someone that I knew happened by to rescue me and tow me in. I think this boat has something against me. I'm going to re-post the question you raised about my mando alterantor. I don't think anyone else pays attention to this string except you and I. Maybe we can get answer that way. Take care.

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

2000 is too high.....get me the voltage readings to each wire going to the alt. with key on engine off.

 

[ODDD1]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

CS, many of us look at your post.....I for one look every time the post moves up...for some of us reading an typinping are 2 dirrewrent things...LOL....

 

[Fouled Plug]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Ditto that, ODDD1. I have been following this post since it started, but don't have any helpful suggestion beyond what Schematic has offered. I still keep tuned in case something pops up I feel like I can help with.

 

[ODDD1]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

CS, sorry for the last...was in a hurry..had to eat dinner, pick up son from work an tease the wife.....<br />it is normal for a mando alternator to need rpm to charge....they are not a self exciting alternator, but it is nacessary none the less......most will not show a normal voltage increase on a dash voltage guage for several miniutes after starting....again this is normal......all these things assume a normally fully charged battery...a partially discharged battery is another story....may take a longer period of time to see any increase in voltage...these alternators have a 55 amp rating, something you wont see on its best day.....an honest 35 amp is more like it...

 

[Walter]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Question:<br /><br />You stated many, many posts ago that when you first bought your boat it ran well (prior to choke/carburation problems etc...)<br />At that time, do you recall having to jazz the throttle like you do now in order for the alternator to begin charging?<br /><br />If ODDD1 says what you are experiencing with your MONDO alternator is normal...then it would stand to reason this has always been the case with your boat's charging system. Perhaps you never noticed it before.<br /><br />In any event...this has been a very, very informative and interesting post to follow. <br /><br />Cudos to you all....

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

Hey cschauerj:<br /><br />If ODDD1 is on the money about this alternator not being able to produce its rated output, this might be your "out" of the deal. Take this mando back and buy a delco!!! Don't tell me you can't find one...<br />Its the most popular alt. ever made and there's more 10SI's around than one can imagine!! <br />Try something.....disconnect the choke lead and see if alt. cuts in sooner?<br />Here is the answer if you can unload the mondo........LOOK HERE With this you can modify a $40.00 auto alt to work!!!

 

[mrnobody]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

i just thought schematic was doing a fine job with out any help from the peanut galary(me) that is why i haven't posted <br />i have been waiting to see this to get resolved.<br /><br />Louis<br /><br />

 

[clanton]

Re: Problem with startup on '97 mercruiser 454

I just installed an alt kit on 3.7 Merc, single wire delco, it does not start to charge until about 1000 rpms. I think bad regulator. Comment about screen kit, delco used to list a different pn for marine solid state regulator. I have friend that has auto electrical rebuild shop, will pick his brain today.