Very interesting artical about HP.

[Jdeagro]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Twswinner;<br /><br />The trailer boats article showed the results on the V8 with the tabs. Although it improved (Acceleration to 30 was 10% faster, and WOT was 4.4% faster) the improvement with the 4.3 was better. This put the smaller engine running 1 mph faster at WOT than the 5.0 V8 as it picked up 4 MPH. The added weight of the V8 did not seem to be that much but it is the location of the weight that makes the difference. <br /><br />When the weight goes up the boat goes down. More wetted surface = more resistance. In the case of these two Maxum the added HP did not seem to offset the increased wetted surface.<br /><br />In the article the 375 required 23% more fuel to achieve 13% more speed. What is interesting is that the 375 only weighed 235 lbs more. Again it is the location of the weight in addition to the weight itself. Maybe we can look at it another way; it takes about 12% more fuel just to propel it's own added weight at WOT. <br /><br />You can push the numbers, question the test parameters, and many other conditions, but $800.00 per MPH, plus lower fuel efficiency is a bit expensive, especially when you rarely run at WOT for any length of time. I can tell you how to get 2 to 4 mph for under $200 and increase the MPG.

 

[QC]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Originally posted by ewen:<br /> the Gi and GXi are both EFI maybe one is throttle body??

Nope. Brochure says they are both MPI . . .

 

[i rowboat]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Good article, great responses; Lordy, the things I learn 'round here...

 

[Realgun]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

I was looking in replacing the "Force motor of questionable Hp. I plugged in the numbers nad got 62 Hp. From speed, pitch of prop, weight and design of hull. I have all the numbers then I messed with the HP. No much changes from a 65 HP engine (This is what happens at 5000 Ft) and a 100 Hp. (A theoretical 115 @5000Ft) MPH is 7 more. from 32 to 39.8.<br /><br />Thing is 370 more pounds and I cannot get on plane no matter where people sit. <br />I either need an even smaller pitch or a bigger motor to turn the prop faster.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Realgun;<br />your going in the wrong direction . What is the current WOT RPMs.

 

[BillP]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

There are WAY too many variables to make the test credible for marketing anything...except magazine subscriptions to newbies that don't know better yet.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> There are WAY too many variables to make the test credible for marketing anything...except magazine subscriptions to newbies that don't know better yet.

Wow Bill, Most of us thought it was very informative and thought that they did a pretty good job, you are sure hard to please.

 

[QC]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

LD,<br /><br />You must have missed my posts . . .

 

[BillP]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Originally posted by LubeDude:<br />

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> There are WAY too many variables to make the test credible for marketing anything...except magazine subscriptions to newbies that don't know better yet.

Wow Bill, Most of us thought it was very informative and thought that they did a pretty good job, you are sure hard to please.

Well yes, it was informative and entertaining. But the test was done with tunnel vision. It "discovered" what is learned in "Basic 101" class.

 

[Realgun]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

NautiJohn nothing was going to get the boat on plane unless it had 100 more Hp. We were on a Putt Putt lake and we had the Max people on board and then all the coolers and such. We were @ 6000 Ft altutude with a 15 pitch beat up prop (same lake earlier time).<br /><br />Max RPM was 3600 range is 4500 to 5500 for that motor but I also have to drop the jets down and repair prop. Aslo I lost the trim cylinder so motor was fixed in the 2nd hole which is to low for a good plane anyway.<br /><br />Sorry but I really dont want need the trim tabs i like the way the boat handles now. Its a great hull when not at the limit so to speak.<br /><br />Personally if we were at sea level we would have had no problems getting on plane. We were alomst there. Prop really need to be fix/replaced soon anyway.<br /><br />Good thing the Ranger can't see up the Canyon. <br /><br />I just got the cylinder back from the welder! Now I just need the O-Rings!

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Realgun;<br /><br />Some times the worst thing about our product is the name, Smart Tabs, as they are always categorized by traditional trim tabs. The benefits are far beyound that of traditional trim tabs and it is very hard to explane since there is nothing like it in the industry. You just don't (and likely won't) understand how much better your boat can be. Putting the boat on plane is 1/10th of the benefits, and that is outstanding. Our system is active 100% of the time, like the suspension system on your car. Better fuel economy, ride, handling, etc at any speed. If you don't think you need them and your happy, then that is all that counts, we don't want to push anyone into anything.

 

[Realgun]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Hate to say this but evertime somebody has a small boating prolem it turns into a Smart Tabs thing.<br /><br />John I love your product however Bayliners hull design is very very good IMHO. Some people say they are junk well some might be but mines pretty solid! Smart tabs might help but there are other things that need to be done. The motor is old and I need the correct jets for this altitude. I could raise the motor an inch would actually help too. <br /><br />Basically now with me and the kids in the big lake the rpms are 4500. the actual range is 4500-5500. I konw if I drop jets I can gain 300 rpm and a smaller prop will gain another 200. So 5000 is not bad. Rasining the motor a bit will also help in another 3-400 rpms so I will be at 5400 which is where I should be however the motor may not put it out like it should. I really want another motor like a V-4 Evinrude of either 90Hp or 115Hp. This will allow me to turn a bigger prop for more speed.<br /><br />I agree at low speeds the boat is tippy due to being a deep V. However it does not wander at low speeds like some boats do. There are few times we get any waves over a foot high.<br /><br />I agree Smart Tabs will help but I cannot justify the cost.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Say Realgun I cant help but make a couple statements.<br /><br />You say you cant justify the cost, but you say you are concidering even another engine.<br /><br />John is 100% correct, you absolutly cant even imagine what your boat will do with smart tabs. I was indeed skeptical about them also, my bass boat was actually a great boat as far as getting on plane and all. [or so I thought]. I have been around performance boats for about 35 years so I have a bit of experience with them.<br /><br />Now that I have them and have them set, I truely cant even imagine how I ever got along without them. Johns also right when he says that the planing speed is only 1 tenth of the advantages. My wife absolutly loves the fact that I can plane out and stay on plane at less than 15 MPH, thats an imposability without the tabs. before, I had a hard time staying on plane between 20-25 MPH. She loves to go boating now, we can cruise a new body of water for an hour or even more, and she barely gets her hair messed up. When mammas happy, we are all happy. <br /><br />You can also tow tubes with much less fuel and at a very slow speed for little ones .<br /><br />I posted on another thread that I wasnt sure why Im getting such good fuel mileage with my 150 Merc. Well, Im pretty sure its because of the tabs. With fuel as high as it is and outboards using it as they do. any savings is worth it.<br /><br />Well, Ive had my say.<br /><br /> Say John, you can send the check to:

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

"Hate to say this but evertime somebody has a small boating prolem it turns into a Smart Tabs thing."<br /><br />Maybe every so often there is a product that actually works! I have tried hard to help people work out their problems and do not recommend the use of our product to hide problems. <br /><br />Unfortunately, since it is a uneque product, it is hard to convince people to look at something different. I was not suggesting that your Bayliner had a bad hull design, I happen to think they are one of the best bangs for the buck you can get.<br /><br />In the designing of a hull many things are taken into account, and the design ends up to be the one that will serve the use of the boat best. For example, abig flat bottom retangular hull is grate for hauling heavy cargo but horrible for towing skiers. I am only suggesting that people pay as much attention to improving the hull design to improve performance as they do to the power plant. Any Trim Tabs system gives you the ability to alter (adjsut) the hull design to compensate for the ever changing conditions (speed, weight, water, balance etc.)<br /><br />From a fuel consumption view point remember that every time your engine turns over you will use more fuel. you are well below the operating range and you should move up some. but I would not change the prop as it it will just make you use more fuel at all speeds.<br /><br />A lower pitch prop will help in acceleration, but use more fuel and reduce top speed.<br /><br />Smart Tabs improve low end performance, fuel economy, ride and handling, and top speed ( RPMs go up also). They alter the hull design to optimize performance at all levels.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Hi John:<br /><br />I just had a guy at the ramp the other day approach me with. "Say, your hull must be a total POS if ya have to use those things".<br /><br />He had a lot of nerve. I said, "Really, so how fast is your boat out of the hole". He had a boat very similar to mine. He said, "Well, its not a rocket or anything, but it gets me there ok". I told him that mines a rocket out of the hole. I then ask him how slow he could keep his boat on plane, and he said, "About 20-25 MPH". And I told him what I could do. He said I was full of SH*T. Well, we launched our boats and I blew him out of the hole so bad he was totally surprised. Then I told him to try and plane as slow as me, that was a total joke also, his boat looked like a plow trying to go that slow. I think you will be getting an order from him, I also out ran him by I would guess about 5 MPH.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

LubeDude;<br /><br />Tell me when you are having fun! <br /><br />I just came back from a distributor trade show and talked to Bullet Bass Boat VP Sales. He said the same thing about the boats needing trim tabs must have a bad hull. He was also proud that his new 20' boat with a 250 HP merc vorado was able to plane off in four to 5 seconds. I told him you could do it in 3 with a 150 HP.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Very interesting artical about HP.

Originally posted by nautiJohn:<br /> LubeDude;<br /><br />Tell me when you are having fun! <br /><br /> I told him you could do it in 3 with a 150 HP.

Perhaps he would like to bet me his new boat that he could beat me in a 100 yard race. Wouldnt even be a race, more like an exibition.<br /><br />4-5 seconds, Isnt that like forever???<br /><br />Go, Come on , come on baby, you can do it, a little more, ooohhhhh ya, now we are getting somewhere, ye haw!!! <br /><br />Thats about how long it takes to read what I wrote.