Difficult and persistent overheat problem

Dimitri

Cadet
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9
Hi folks, I just joined here as I heard this is the place to go with outboard problems.<br /><br />I have a 2000 Mercury BigFoot 50HP 4-stroke (before EFI) Serial # 0T071106 and I have been having overheat problems for several months now. The motor ran flawlessly for years before that and asides from the overheat problem, it still runs well now.<br /><br />When it first started overheating, I did the obvious and pulled the lower unit and put a new impellor in. It was the original impellor that came out, looked as good as the new one. In the 5 times I have dropped the lower unit since then, I have replaced all the water pump parts including the connector hose and water pump body. I have tried 2 brand new impellors.<br /><br />After the problem persisted, I replaced the thermostat. Before putting in the new one, I put it in some hot water with a thermometer and verified that it was opening at the right temperature. Both the old and the new thermostats work perfectly.<br /><br />I have also taken off the water jacket cover and everything in there was clean. I forced compressed air and pressurized water in through all the openings I observed and did not find any problem. Except that a small amount of water comes out of the copper tube where the water pump connects too. I blew high pressure water backwards through the system and got what appeared to be a partial clog out. I never saw anything come out per se, but now the water was flowing much better and I no longer overheat on the flusher, but it still does not flow as well as I think it should and it still does overheat under load. when I backflush it with the lower unit off, most water comes out around the exhaust pipe. Much less comes out of the copper input tube, it is more than a trickle but less than the gusher I would expect out of the tube (must be about half inch in diameter, maybe 5/8).<br /><br />Also, when I force water up the copper input tube, there seems to be a lot more backpressure than I would expect. With full house pressure and holding a hose onto it very tightly, I can force water to go through the system, but I don't think I should have to hold the hose so tightly. When I run the motor with the ear muff flusher, I get a much better stream than with the motor in the water. The water dribbles out even with the new water pump. The flusher appears to mask my problem.<br /><br />My best guess at this point is that I have a partially obstructed water tube, or the area where the water tube connects to the powerhead. So far, I have only tried to ream it with weed wacker line but that is not very rigid. My question is whether I should drop the lower unit one more time and see if I can ream the water tube with something more rigid, like a coat hanger for example. If that doesn't solve it, seems like the powerhead may have to come off.<br /><br />Any ideas or advice out there?<br /><br />You can see even more details of this problem at the boat BB where I have been originally posting about it and folks have been trying to help.<br /> here is the web page link <br /><br />Thanks in advance for any comments.
 

KCLOST

Commander
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

I'm not familiar with the 4-strokes... But I'd like to ask you if your engine has what is called a "pressure relif valve" also known as a poppet valve?<br /><br />Let us know...
 

Dimitri

Cadet
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

According to the shop manual, the next size up (75HP) does have a poppet valve, but my 50HP does not. I've verified that it only has a thermostat..unless there is something under the powerhead that I can't see.
 

Dimitri

Cadet
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

No opinions? Anyone disagree with a partial obstruction theory?<br /><br />Also, is there a reason why the water flow might be less when the engine heats up? Seems a little stronger when I first start up and then pressure/output diminishes when the engine is hot.
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,778
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

I go with KC's suggestion on a relief valve.<br /><br />I had a '75 OMC 70 hp that only had a stat so I know they make engines with just stats.....or if it had one I don't know where it was and it didn't work cause when my stat locked shut my engine siezed.....$1000 powerhead overhaul.<br /><br />My '02 Merc has a stat and relief valve. There are some facts floating around about rpm's where it opens and all but the purpose it to let more water thru the engine than can get thru the stat opening at higher throttle settings. <br /><br />My latest sales brochure is a '97 and that year they only listed a 50 and a 9.9 in 4 strokes. The catalog specifies water cooling, but neither stat, no relief valve. So they must have decided that the engine needs one or both and installed both.<br /><br />Since It is a 4 cycle I have no idea where to look. On my 90, when you stand at the rear of the engine, on the upper left of the water jacket is a small cover (mounted to the water jacket) that has 2 bulges in it; one is the stat, and the other (larger one) is the bypass valve.<br /><br />Best I can do.<br /><br />Mark
 

Dimitri

Cadet
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

From the pictures I've seen of relief valves, they seem to be in the water jacket cover. Mine definitely only has a thermostat in the cover, no other valve.<br /><br />How important is the bead of silicone on the exhaust tube flange area between the mid unit and lower unit? I never put new silicone there since my Clymer shop manual did not say to do it, but there was clearly a bead of old silicone there (just on the one side facing the water pump) the very first time I pulled the L/U (probably from the factory). If exhaust gases are getting in there, could it be severe enough to cause pressure drop in the pumped water? When it is idling, I've noticed exhaust gas bubbling out around the zincs.<br /><br />For that matter, the shop manual also says not to use any gasket sealer on the water pump gaskets yet the original ones that came out of there were pretty well glued to the housing and wear plate.<br /><br />I put a pressure gauge on my tell-tale and it reads at 10 psi on start up. After it has been idling a while and presumably the thermostat opens, the pressure goes down to about 6 psi. If I rev the motor up to 2-3K RPM, it won't go past 11 psi. The shop manual says it should be 2-4 psi at idle. Supposed to be 10-15 psi at 6000 rpm. If I unplug the tell-tale hole, the pressure goes down to 0.<br /><br />I'm starting to wonder if I had a silt obstruction at first but that got cleared and maybe now I have too much air in the water pump as a secondary problem. Anybody ever run into a situation like this with a brand new water pump and housing?
 

Dimitri

Cadet
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

Wow..no responses, I guess I must have stumped youze motor heads ;) <br /><br />I have started suspecting air leaks under the water pump. Today, I hooked up the flusher muffs to the detached L/U and pushed water into the pump. Water was clearly coming out between the base and wear plate. On closer observation, the WP base is pitted and may even have a crack in the area where the water comes up from the input holes. Seems like this may explain my less than satisfactory water pump performance with 3 good impellers.<br /><br />So, my next move is to replace the water pump base and then use gasket sealer even though the Clymer says its not needed. Hopefully, this is going to fix it once and for all (or at least another 5 years or so). Looks like salt water eats up the base after a while.<br /><br />One more question, seeing as I have never done a water pump base/oil seals before, can I get away without draining my (3 hour old) gearcase lube out and doing a pressure test when I put the new seals in? A Merc mechanic said this should be possible but I'd like a second opinion from someone who has done it. I have the L/U mounted in a shop vise and have the water pump base completely level and ready for surgery.
 

DHPMARINE

Captain
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
3,688
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

Next move should be a better manual.<br /><br />Second move might be to dismantle until you can see the water tube,and especialy the seal at the top,under the powerhead.<br /><br />DHP
 

KCLOST

Commander
Joined
Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

3 year old gearcase lube is about two years too old...drain it and replace with new after the water pump base replacement....<br />You really need to follow the manual for the "exact" motor that you have for this type of work... I don't like the clymer or seloc for this type of job, they jump around too much from motor to motor of different vintages...I'd invest in a good service repair manual from mercury.<br /><br />If things aren't exactly right, your problem could go on, and on, and on. <br />Too many motors require sealer there, not here, a gasket here, not there, and o-ring here or there.. Just be careful...<br />But if you think you have found the culprit, just make sure that the culprit wasn't caused by an improper installation earlier...
 

Dimitri

Cadet
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

The lube was replaced a few months ago but it only has about 3 engine hours on it. This is the same case for the engine oil since it is 4 stroke.<br /><br />I rebuilt the water pump for the third time and this time used a new base too. Pressure may be slightly better than with the leaky base I had on there but it still does not seem like enough flow and the motor continues to overheat unless I block the telltale to raise the pressure in the powerhead.<br /><br />Looks like the only thing possibly left is this famous grommet under the powerhead. Interestingly, I found this 2 yr old thread where Picco has the exact same year and model of motor as me and had a problem under the power head. Perhaps its a design flaw with the motor and mine happened 1.5 years later because I flushed a bit more than him. Not that I have been a perfect flusher, but I do flush most of the time but not always immediately after shutting down. Once I get this thing fixed, I think my flush performance will be more like 100%.<br /><br />I agree the Clymer manual is not as good as the factory manual but it seems good enough to do the powerhead job. I think I can do it without dropping the L/U again. I've dropped it about 6 times in the last few months so the splines are nice and greased. I'm not sure if I can get away with leaving the engine oil in there. I suppose it depends on if it gets contaminated or not. I haven't pulled the powerhead on an outboard before but I have done enough other mechanical work that it doesn't seem like its too big a deal. As a single-hander, I'll rig a hoist with some 4x4's and a comealong. I expect to find a partially corroded and constricted water tube and grommet. I took the lower cowling off and there is a lot of crusty crud bleeding out at the gasket on both sides where the adapter plate meets the drive shaft housing. This has got to be the only possible explanation left!! I figure I'll clean out the pipe and other exposed water passages, and then put a new grommet and gasket on. Any gotcha's I should watch out for?
 

Dimitri

Cadet
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

For the benefit of anyone else who finds this thread, the culprit was in fact corrosion behind the rubber grommet that seals the water tube to the powerhead. Had to lift the powerhead and then the adapter plate. The hole was constricted by the corrosion swelled rubber, probably less than 1/4 inch diameter left and it should be about 1/2 or 5/8. Cleaned it out, put a new grommet in, and put it all back together. Lots of pressure coming out of the tell tale now.
 

saumon

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
1,452
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

Thanks, very kind of you. Not too many peoples take time to post an update when their problem was solved.
 

andy6374

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
1,617
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

Way to go!!!<br /><br />I second saumon's response. A nice ending to a troubling issue. <br /><br />Dimitri, do you pull the powerhead yourself or did a shop do it for you?
 

Dimitri

Cadet
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
9
Re: Difficult and persistent overheat problem

Andy, I did it myself. In hindsight, I should have had a shop fix it from the start, but once I was so far into it and had so much time invested, I became more determined (stubborn) to just fix it myself. Here are a few pics:<br />
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