Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

budsbud66

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Feb 25, 2006
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105
Ive included pictures of the motor with the trim all the way down. the motor is a 1984 65hp commercial. Hull is a 1996 starcraft 160t (max hp is 65)<br /><br />Problem: bad planing time, low top end.. (30mph)<br />Prop: 13 3/4 / 15p<br />Solution: probebly a prop problem, But i wanted a few opinions on the motor height vs pad. befor i buy a prop..<br /><br />Thank you all for your time! All opinions welcome!<br /><br />
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ferrariman

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
82
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

You can try reaising the motor but just watch the water pressure so u dont fry ur motor,
 

ferrariman

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Jan 4, 2006
Messages
82
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

You can try reaising the motor but just watch the water pressure so u dont fry ur motor,
 

LubeDude

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Oct 8, 2003
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Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

Originally posted by ferrariman:<br /> You can try reaising the motor but just watch the water pressure so u dont fry ur motor,
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: <br /><br />Like where is he going to raise it to????????????<br /><br />Look at the mounting holes!<br /><br />This looks like a bass boat, the stepped transom and all. Its probably ok if you had a large diameter stainless prop. That aluminum prop is likely going to blow out at that hight. You would only get it higher with a jack plate.<br /><br />How is the performance now?
 

budsbud66

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
105
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

The performance now, sucks! Bad planes... ****ty top end.. i Found a guy selling the identical boat on ebay with a 60hp merc and his top speed averaged 38mph.. my top speed is 30w/ Full gas livewell / partner..<br /><br /><br />Is the motor to high???<br /><br />Should i be able to get on the pad.. because once trimmed out im no where near riding on the pad..<br /><br />Its a multi species boat..<br /><br />thanks..........
 

rickdb1boat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
11,195
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

It may be the pics, but the motor looks plenty high to me....
 

LubeDude

Admiral
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Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

We need to know more about the boat and engine combination. give us all the information that you can and a full picture of the boat. Im thinking that your main problem may be a prop problem.
 

Chief101

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
591
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

The stratecge should be coming from the line of the hull, not the fin. Lose the fin, unless it's completely out of the water it will rob you of speed. As LD just said a good prop with right pitch will help alot. ;)
 

Chief101

Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 29, 2005
Messages
591
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

Also, don't forget to check for unwanted baggage, such as water saturated foam. ;)
 

steelespike

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Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

The motor seems plenty high in fact the fin is probably out of water when on plane.Fin needs to be in the water to be effective.Yes it will sap some speed but not enough to notice without looking at the speedo.Some fiberglass boats get water logged,too much weight in the stern will make for slow planing.Trimming out too far also.<br /> If there is a hook in the bottom it will make the bow too low.From your description I would suspect the prop or some sort of motor problem.<br /> Check the compression,Be sure the throttle is opening all the way.May be a simple cable adjustment.Before messing with the prop you need to know what your present max rpm is and be sure the motor is in good shape.
 

steelespike

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Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

The motor seems plenty high in fact the fin is probably out of water when on plane.Fin needs to be in the water to be effective.Yes it will sap some speed but not enough to notice without looking at the speedo.Some fiberglass boats get water logged,too much weight in the stern will make for slow planing.Trimming out too far also.<br /> If there is a hook in the bottom it will make the bow too low.From your description I would suspect the prop or some sort of motor problem.<br /> Check the compression,Be sure the throttle is opening all the way.May be a simple cable adjustment.Before messing with the prop you need to know what your present max rpm is and be sure the motor is in good shape.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

Hmmm. I see the problem. There is a level stuck between the lower unit and the transom. :D :D :D <br /><br />But seriously, I thought the cavatation plate (where the fin is mounted) is supposed to be level with the keel? No?
 

brownies

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
495
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

The raising / lowering thing didn't do that much for me. I was told to go by the propshaft height.<br />I used a long level and was told to stop doing that. (although in my case the results were the same....sigh).<br /> From an expert:<br />I was told..<br /><br />"I don't want to know what you boat is doing now. That won't help me. Do this first.<br />Use a level on the deck of the boat, or the trailer. Level the boat and measure up to the rear of the pad.<br />Use a level on your anti-cavitation plate (where that wing is). Get the motor level and measure from the center of the propshaft to the ground.<br />Raise the motor until the propshaft was 2" lower than the bottom of the pad.<br />Do some testing and call me back with the results if you want me to work on your prop."<br /><br />But, after all this, it didn't help me all that much and when i started my propshaft was 4" below the pad. (I did gain "some" though).<br /><br />Looks as if you may need a jackplate to do any height adjustment though?<br /><br />There is HOWEVER a few mph you can gain by tailoring the height of your motor.<br />AND, what are you using for a speedo?<br />What is the boat that was advertised using for a speedo?<br />and, was it a once in a lifetime ordeal that the other boat went that fast. (Heck, I bet both boats will go 60mph down the highway). <br />Just make sure your tests and others tests are equall. Boat Speedometers lie.
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,778
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

3 things I see plus a question and a remark.<br /><br />1. Way too high. Water pickup holes are out of the water at WOT. Surprised your alum prop isn't blowing it's brains out (rpm's wrapped up in cavitation).<br /><br />2. Lot of crud on lower unit that could slow you down. Once you come down that whales tail is definitely going to cost you some mph if it touches the water at WOT.<br /><br />3. Get rid of that piece of crap alum prop and get the right SS one. Need WOT engine rpm's after you drop down a couple of notches on the motor height to help in the selection. Go to props and talk to Walleyehed.<br /><br />4. Question. Is that a trim or tilt unit I see? If tilt, that is the rest of your problem.<br /><br />5. Remark. Don't ignore the comment about trapped water in the boat. Depending upon your flotation method and livewells and all you could be carrying around several hundred pounds of undesirable (water) ballast that surely will make a difference in trying to get where you want to be.BTDT<br /><br />Mark
 

Reel Poor

Vice Admiral
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Jan 29, 2005
Messages
5,522
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

Drop you motor down. Mount it in the second hole from the top. Then go and enjoy the ride.<br /><br />You might want to try it with and without the fin to see how it reacts each way.
 

budsbud66

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
105
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

Ok, thanks for all the opinions... This will help me alot.. <br /><br />Hear are the answers to a few questions..<br /><br />1. Yes, once the boat is trimmed out the whale tale is completely out of the water.. that is why i thought the motor was too high. If i take whaletail off, it is detrimental to my plane time. and i cant afford that.<br /><br />2. I tried all day to get my frick tach to work and im having problems.<br /><br />3. I think your right, the boat is saturated.. <br />the floor in the front compartments is constantly wet. even after i try drying it out..<br /><br />4. The motor does start to cavitate once i try to trim it out further then it likes.. I think it can trim alot further but i dont do it because im afraid of overheating and cavitation.<br /><br />ok my questions..<br /><br />1. What will lowering the motor do?? will i get better hole shot, better top end?<br /><br />2. Why is a tilt unit bad???<br /><br />3. How the hell do i dry the entire boat!??!! it sat in storage all winter and the friggin thing is still soaked.. i have to find away to dry it, befor it starts rotting crap!<br /><br />4. will a 3cyl car tach work on this boat?? The marine one is being crappy to me.. i was looking at sunpro's for 40$ <br /><br />5. The speedo is done by lowrance gps LCX15<br /><br />6. The boat has max HP its rated for, There should be absoultly no reason for me having to have my fishing buddy bounce on the bow to plane it out.. that is ridiculous!<br /><br />7. I'm trying to narrow all my problems down befor i try changing props.. one step at a time.<br /><br />i included a few pictures of the boat.. <br /><br />Id like to thank you all for your responces.. im <br />definatly going to go with my instinct and lower the motor.. i had a fealing it was too high..
 

budsbud66

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
105
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

this is the boat when i first bought it!.. its been beating well since!<br />
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Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

A few comments:<br /><br />1) Looks like the pin is in the second hole. Try moving it to the first hole so that the motor can trim in farther. This will go a long way to reducing porpoising when underway. The closer to the transom the lower unit gets, the more it points downward and the thrust tends to lift the aft and force down the bow making it ride level. That is what you want to happen if it porpoises.<br /><br />2) Before buying a new prop, clean that one up to make testing better and reduce unnecessary vibration and cavitation. Sand the rough edges smooth, carefully straighten bent edges with wooden mallet. Then drill the ventilation holes in the prop. The holes allow the motor to rev up higher on takeoff and will get you on plane faster. Search the forums for the OMC service bulletin on how to do it, or maybe someone will post a link.<br /><br />3) I doubt your boat dried out much over the winter because it was probably frozen, no? Plus, if the foam is saturated, it will never, ever dry out in the boat. Weigh the boat to see if its holding water. <br /><br />4) Remove the fin while you do all this. If in the end you are still not happy, stick it back on.<br /><br />5) I agree with the folks who think the o/b is too high. Drop it 2 inches or so.<br /><br />Good luck, the problem you have can be easily fixed with a little trial and error testing/setup. Its not rocket science, but you do need to know how each change will affect the boat.
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,778
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

Your problem is common to tillersteering boats.....and I don't see a console in yours!<br /><br />You and your fishing partner are in the stern which will definitely aggrivate the porposing and poor hole shot problem with just 65 hp. That picture is worth a thousand words.<br /><br />Now "if you had a 150hp" on that boat it would make no difference as you could "power thru it", jack that baby up, trim her out, run your high performance prop look at the mist blowing out your behind and try to see where you were going thru your watering eyes................; but you don't and you can't (power thru it) so you have to act accordingly.<br /><br />2. See no reason for any jacking on this boat....see below.<br /><br />3. Somebody mentioned a tilt pin limiting tuck in trim but I don't see one. Once you lower your engine, you should come out of the hole with the trim tucked all the way in and once on plane, trim her out. As you do the bow will lift (after the initial lift associated with getting on plane which would be significant on this rig) and the speed will pick up. Somewhere in there you will find your point of equilibrium.....max speed with min porposing.....compromise.<br /><br />4. Your 15p prop with a 65 hp on that boat should do ok, but a 15p ss, cupped, would probably be just the ticket. Should give you excellent performance and 35 mph with 2 in the boat. Would definitely reduce any cavitation tendencies you would have. <br /><br />I had an 85 on a similar boat and 39 was all I could get and I did a lot of tinkering with different props (ss) and jacking. Had a brother in law with an OMC 60 hp on a 15 ft trihull and he was running a 15p alum but water skiing. He really needed more pitch but couldn't due to the skiing out of the hole load. Don't remember his speed but 30 sounds about right with the boat normally loaded. He was wound up tight if the boat was lightly loaded. Could have done 35 probably with a 17 SS...but would have had a problem pulling skis.<br /><br />5. Once you drop your engine your cavitation should disappear. I would drop it as far as I could such that when the boat is level and the engine is level, the bottom of the whales tale aka anti cavitation plate is about 1 inch above a line extension of the hull. This will put it just out of the water when you are running which is what you want if you don't need it and want to maximize your performance. Again, you aren't going to get that much with that engine set up the way it is.<br /><br />Just noticed one more thing. You are running a deep V which is against you . If you had more hp it work for you by lifting out of the water at higher speed, reducing the hull drag and increasing the speed.....but again you don't. And it looks like you have a pad also....same thing here. For your engine a flat bottom would do best....at least the last 1/3 of the boat.<br /><br />Back in the '70's skeeter made a pretty much flat bottom 16' narrow bass boat with a steering console. A friend had a '65 Johnny and he could run about 37 with that rig. I had a 125 Johnny on a 17' that could do 39 and I could just pull away from him. He was running a 17 OMC SS as I recall. He had no hole shot problem as he had the flat hull area in the stern to provide lift and all his weight wasn't right in front of the engine.<br /><br />6. Agree that you need to leave your whales tale or whatever fin on there to help combat stern sag caused by you sitting right there.<br /><br />7. Once you do this I see no reason why your buddy has to get on the bow to get her on top.<br /><br />8. With a boat that new, I don't see a reason for hull contained water. Now you may have a live well full of water and that's another black mark for your performance since they are usually aft and I'd bet one of those lockers right by you are where it is.....bet it's the big one aft, on the port side. Drain that sucker and put em (fish....Walleyes looks like) on a little ice.<br /><br />9. Last. To get rid of the wet deck carpeting you have to get the temp/humidity above the dew point; the higher, the faster it would dry on it's own.....hard to do in the winter when the relative humidity is 99%. Would need artificial heating to dry it out.<br /><br />HTH,<br /><br />Mark
 

budsbud66

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
105
Re: Motor height, w/pic - Does this look right?

I found a 13p ss cupped prop, I dont know my RPMS because my friggin tach wont work. but i really think im running under 5300. One surprising thing is, ... <br />when trailering the boat, if i dont have a fair head start i cant power myself to the roller.. my buddies 16ft Lund with a 60 hp will power his to the roller and seems like there is enough power to put it the back of the truck if it could..<br />odd...<br /><br />Im going to talk to my mechanic tommrow to see if i can borrow a portable tach / timing light. just so i can get the basis of my max rpms on the 15p prop..<br /><br />i thought the 13p agressive cupping would do nice for a hole shot..<br /><br />i Know i dont have much, but i fish alot of bar tourneys, and having a full livewell is very crucial.. it would be nice to get on plane without help. and it would be nice to squeeze 34-35mph, because in some tourneys i do run over 30 miles to get to my hotspots...<br /><br />thanks for putting up with all my questions..<br /><br />still looking on opinions about trying the 13p prop.. (im gonna try the prop, and if works decent im going to drop down a hole)<br /><br />thanks..
 
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