Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

[jasonalden]

Well I find myself back in this forum due to a major problem with my engine.<br /><br />I have a 1997 150 Yamaha 2 stroke Saltwater Series II (6 cylinder). Engine model S150TXRV with 426 hours, so it reads (I'm not the original owner; I purchased the boat in June 2004 with about 245 hours on it).<br /><br />Yesterday while out, the engine starts clanking and making just a horrible noise. I immediately put the boat in neutral, and the noise was still present. Then shut it down. When I tried to start it again, the engine wouldn't even turn over. The battery wasn't dead. I dropped the anchor and called for a tow. I pulled the engine cover and the engine was hot, although I don't know if it was abnormally hot, it was just hot. I found a ton of water in the bottom part where the power head is. I tried to crank it, and I saw the starter engage and attempt to turn the flywheel, but once again the flywheel wouldn't turn (just a half inch maybe). Great; it has seized. <br /><br />Well no it hasn't seized because today it WILL turn over. It labors when turning over and maybe after 2 seconds of turning over it seizes. Then, it won't turn over again for about 30 minutes or so.<br /><br />I pulled all 6 spark plugs and the 3 on the port side look good, but the 3 on the starboard side show signs of rust, especially the top 2 (they are really rusty on the spark area of the plugs). All of these plugs were replaced 7/21/04 at 288 hours.<br /><br />What next? Is this a do-it-yourself job or should this be left up to the professional? Are we talking full engine rebuild here (ugggg).<br /><br />Thanks for any help and direction on this issue.<br /><br /> CLICK HERE to view my blog on this problem.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

now its time for a complete teardown and inspection. I may know where a crank and a set of rods are if ya need them.

 

[Jan Z]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

That's bad news Jason, better read the "Broken bolts" thread before you start twisting wrenches on stuff, it might save you a bunch of grief.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

a 97 model should come apart. most the bolts were chrome plated by then. either way its good luck.

 

[jasonalden]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Shoot I was afraid of that. <br /><br />How much does a new or rebuilt powerhead run? I'm not sure I got the guts to tear down the engine and get it back together in one piece.

 

[jasonalden]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

I found small metal chips coming out of my lower starboard cylinder through the sparkplug hole. Some of the chips are magnetic, others are not. Could this mean the piston is disintegrating and taking the cylinder bore with it...<br />Cylinder = iron<br />piston = aluminum<br />?

 

[jasonalden]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Hey Rodbolt,<br />I am thinking to remove the starboard cylinder head for further inspection. Do you recommend I remove the water jacket from the cylinder head first, or after I remove the cylinderhead/water jacket assembly?<br /><br />Do you recommend use of a torch or should I just try with rachet first?<br /><br />Thanks a bunch.

 

[Fjbango]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Jasonalden: I will never ever attempt to remove any, absolutely any bolt on my outboard without a Oxy torch. AT the very least use a torque wrench so you can control how much torque you are putting on the bolts.<br />THe worst thing is that you "try a little more" and you feel it turned a little, BUT YOU ARE WRONG, IT DID NOT TURNED, IT TWISTED !!!!, then you go back, IT IS MOVING! youthink, WRONG AGAIN, you twisted it back..., then it SNAPS!<br /><br />Do me a favor, DO yourself a favor, use a torch, a good one It will not hurt.<br /><br />This is what I learned.<br /><br />Frank <br />(Fjbango: 1991 Yamaha broken bolts nightmare, still in progress)

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Remove the complete head first. May not be any reason to remove water jacket.

 

[jasonalden]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Thanks gents. Also one other question...<br />I have an idea that my lower starboard cylinder rod-bearing-to-crankshaft has come apart...<br /><br />It seems feasible that I should be able to remove the carbs and then be able to remove the back of the power head to gain access to the crankshaft to inspect this, or further repair this...Or, am I dreaming here?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

you can remove the intake manifold to look at the crank but not much else. its time to bite the bullet and tear it down.

 

[jasonalden]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Alright well today I pulled all 14 starboard cylinder head bolts with minimal effort. In fact, most of the bolts are still very shiny.<br /><br />However, I am unable to get the cylinder head off; it won't budge. I tried some medium prying, and some smacks with a hard rubber mallet. <br /><br />Is it time to pull out the crow bar?!<br /><br />I also posted some pictures of the engine here:<br /> http://thealdens.org/boat/ABII/EngineFailureJan2006/default.htm <br /><br />How to get the head off??

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

there is a tab cast into the head for prying. yes the factory gaskets stick tight. thats why they are all I will use.<br />you will find that most the powerhead bolts are chrome plated and will usually come out. the cadmium plated ones wont.

 

[jasonalden]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Thanks Rodbolt.<br /><br />Oh and one other thing...as I study the 2 stroke model, there is something I do not understand. My engine is oil-injected. I assume the oil is injected inside the cylinder, at least that is where it appears the oil tubes go to. If this is the case, how is it that the crankshaft gets lubricated????? All that seems to be hitting my crank is the air/fuel mixture.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

the oil is injected ,on a carbed model, into the intake track by the reed assy's. each line has a check valve and should be inspected as per the service manual. replace the fuel pumps as a matter of maint.<br /> the air/fuel mixes with the oil in the reed/intake and is futher mixed,compressed and twiled about inside the crankcase. then it head to the combustion chamber to be turned into smoke and fire. you also need to check the recirc nipples on the block. they are one way valves and I use a syringe with a piece of tubing to test them.<br />you have 6 tubes going from the oil pump to the intake,3 on each side. the six tubes between the intake and the aft end of the cylinders are the fuel recirc or "puddle drains".<br /> take careful notes and make pics and drawings as the routing of them is difficult to find sometimes.

 

[jasonalden]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Thanks for the detail on the oil injection Rodbolt. It seems to me that if you don't care a whole lot about smoking, mix oil into your fuel to avoid injection system failures...<br /><br />I took the cylinder head off and did some further inspection this weekend. Someone suggested my issue is a disintegrated piston ring.<br />Take a look here: Update with pictures <br /><br />What does this look like to you???

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

looks like its possible the oil system was pumping water instead of oil, which is not an oil failure. however the piston looks like it detonated due to a lean air/fuel mix.<br /> most oil failures result in a connecting rod outside the engine block. looking at the carbon tracks on the fire ring of the middle cylinder head gasket its possible that the head gasket was leaking.check the bottom carb and the fuel pump diaphrams carefully as they can detonate a piston as well.<br /> that head is an easy fix if you cant find another easily. use a die grinder and a ball stone or burr and smooth it out. but like I say now its a complete teardown to look at the crank and rods.<br /> pay close attention to the water jacket between the V and the exhaust divider plate.

 

[jasonalden]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Rodbolt, or anyone else with some knowledge of tear-down, I have a question I'm needing help with. It is almost Spring and my boat ain't getting fixed by itself..I gotta get moving...<br /><br />Is it conceivable that I would be able to remove the carbs, and intake, as well as the other cylinder head, then the flywheel and other assemblies on top of the head to get to the crankshaft, rods, and pistons for inspection and possible replacement?<br /><br />In other words, I am trying to make this as simple as possible..wondering if I can avoid removing the powerhead from its mount to get the job done? Is it possible (in the event I need this) for the cylinder walls to be "machined" while the powerhead is still attached?<br /><br />Oh and Rodbolt, can you email me prices for a crankshaft, rods, and pistons, and associated attaching hardware. jasonalden@yahoo.com<br /><br /><br />Thanks.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

its sometimes easier to remove the bolt ons from the block assy before removing the block assy from the midesction but there is no other way around it, Ill look up parts and pieces once you see what you need.<br /> the motor elves have failed here too.

 

[Ray Neudecker]

Re: Saltwater Intrusion Into 1 or More Cylinders 1997 Yamaha 150 S150TXRV

Hard to tell from pics only what happened but it does appear to be fuel related. Either bad fuel or lack of fuel. The detonation would suggest bad fuel. Getting to be a very common sight as boaters are apparently letting fuel sit longer between uses and required oxygenerators to bring up octane are evaporating. The good news is most are fairly reasonable to repair. The power head will have to come off to disassemble to repair. Pulling the intake will allow you to see if damage to the crank is there.