115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

[rothfm]

I have a new-to-me 1984 Johnson 115. I swear in testing it on the stand, the starter shaft is spinning clockwise! Therefore the pinion never gets to ride 'up' the shaft to the flywheel. That shaft should spin Counter clockwise from what I read.

Shouldnt the starter shaft spin counter clock-wise? in doing it by finger, the pinion does ride up. Then the shaft will continue counter-clockwise , and it turns the flywheel "clock-wise" as it should( this seem to be the case doing it by "hand".

I spent all week with its original harness, remote and Tnt cabling---metering out every pin connection and ensuring all was wired and plugged correctly(based on many diagrams obtained from this forum)--Im certain of it. I'm using the key switch. Primer works ok, acc work ok and TNT is all ok. I"m positive the wiring is aok. When I bought this, the PO did a compression test and cranked it in front of me....but I didnt notice direction really. basically I can get it to just spin in place clockwise!

How do I "jump" directly from a battery to the starter motor directly, safely? I hit just the lower Red big lug, and get just a big spark. OH NOTE: also when I start with the key and the starter motor shaft does turn (clockwise) its makes a strange noise, like its binding or sturggling sort of.

I'm stimied. I got a 1998 88spl sitting next to it, but before use that to help diagnose--I want to be sure so I dont mess up 2 Motors!!!!

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

You're either applying reverse polarity to the starter due to either having the cables hooked up backwards or you have charged the battery backwards.

If a Prestolite starter, another reason would be that you have the brushes installed wrong.

 

[86 century]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

The place to start is testing your battery you will need a meter for this make sure you get positive voltage with the meter connected + to +.

If that tests ok then move to the solenoid when you test from the constant 12v side to ground your metter should read positve voltage.

Good luck

 

[clanton]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

If it realy is turning backwards, the case with the magnets is installed upside down. Remove starter flip the case.

 

[F_R]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

If it realy is turning backwards, the case with the magnets is installed upside down. Remove starter flip the case.

Thanks for that info, I didn't know it is possible to install it upside down. But that does make sense if it is. But in this case, he says the PO cranked it in front of him, so the starter must have been right at that time. Something has changed since then.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

You jump to the starter buy connecting one end of the jumper cable to the POS terminal of the battery. Touch the other end directly to the large post on the starter. Yes, you will get a spark when this connection is made. But if the starter doesn't immediately spin, something is wrong. In that test the ground cable between the NEG terminal on the battery and engine block must be clean and tight -- on both ends. Inertia (or lack of it) is what initially spins the pinion up the shaft. But if the battery is weak, the pinion grooves in the starter shaft are sticky, or the starter is indeed spinning the wrong way the pinion cannot rise to mesh with the flywheel.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

Years ago I had a Studebaker starter repaired and it turned backwards when I got it back.
Reversing the cables does nothing.
They had installed the brush end 180 Degrees out I simply rotated the end plate 180 degrees.
I believe there is normally a notch or pin to aid in proper assembly.

 

[boobie]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

Joe Reeves said it all.

 

[nwcove]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

You're either applying reverse polarity to the starter due to either having the cables hooked up backwards or you have charged the battery backwards.

If a Prestolite starter, another reason would be that you have the brushes installed wrong.

didnt have a clue that a battery could be charged " backwards"??? but it is good info to know.

 

[F_R]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

Years ago I had a Studebaker starter repaired and it turned backwards when I got it back.
Reversing the cables does nothing.
They had installed the brush end 180 Degrees out I simply rotated the end plate 180 degrees.
I believe there is normally a notch or pin to aid in proper assembly.

This isn't a Studebaker. Modern outboards (and cars) have permanent magnets in the housing instead of field coils (Studebaker). Reversing cables on the Studebaker reverses BOTH the armature and field, so it does nothing as far as rotation direction. With permanent magnets, reversing the cables only reverses the armature, not the magnets. Old rule says "Opposite charges attract" Result: Backwards

 

[rothfm]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

Thank you everyone...going to get back to this tomorro. Stuck working alot.

Joe Reves, Been reading alot of your threads. thanks for the input. I'm an Electronic Tech by trade and have no issues probing around. Like another poster, it was late at night, but I swear the shaft was clockwisw...But I realize when things spin, it can create an optical illusion whereby it can momentary look like its spinning a different direction. I've metered the entire harness end to end, and also thru the key switch--all aok. The only issue I had was the prior owner had the small black - Bat wire jumpered outside the red connector because a Pin in the connector broke. He had the motor side of this wire going to a block ground...I asume this is ok, as I'm not sure where it originally went. But everything showing -bat certainly meters at 0 ohms.

Will repost tomorrow when i get back to it. THANK YOU.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

In your line of work, I'm sure you know that the small black wire you mention being sidetracked to ground at the RED plug is a ground wire. As such, due to it being shorted within the RED plug, it is a normal procedure to jump the plug in order to connect it to wherever it should go. This would have nothing to do with the starter's rotation however. For piece of mind, I would trace the related pin on the opposite side of that RED plug to see where the other portion of that small black wire connects.

 

[rothfm]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

Thanks Joe. Wow Problem Solved...But its certainly strange. bad battery cables.

I cleaned up everything very well as it needed it. I brought in a known good fresh battery.

I was using the entire harness including the original battery cables. I dropped the harness and went directly to the starter with same Backward result (clockwise). I verified it wasnt an optical illusion.

I then dropped the original battery cables and just used my auto jumper cables, and presto--ran counterclockwise and the pinion rose as it should. I was stimied!

I took the starter out, put on the original battery cables--and spins backwards again(clockwise)!!! Put on my auto jumpers, spins as it should (counter clockwise). Issue is with the original cables, I will meter them and play with it again tomorrow. Must be shorted somewhere inside I guess. Very strange.

But I verfied both my 115 and 88SPL are indeed turning aok with the jumper cables...I'm happy. Thanks everyone for responding.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

Cables are cables and current/voltage polarity flows in a straight line from one end to the other. A cable in itself could not change polarity UNLESS one end of the cable was connected to the wrong terminal such as:

Red positive battery cable connected to the starter solenoid as it should be BUT the other end connected to the negative battery terminal...... got to be a screwup such as that somewhere.

 

[daselbee]

Re: 115 starter turning backward? Arggg.

"Must be shorted somewhere inside I guess. Very strange."

Heh heh heh.

Sorry...couldn't help it....